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Nội dung được cung cấp bởi Blake Beus & Greg Marshall, Blake Beus, and Greg Marshall. Tất cả nội dung podcast bao gồm các tập, đồ họa và mô tả podcast đều được Blake Beus & Greg Marshall, Blake Beus, and Greg Marshall hoặc đối tác nền tảng podcast của họ tải lên và cung cấp trực tiếp. Nếu bạn cho rằng ai đó đang sử dụng tác phẩm có bản quyền của bạn mà không có sự cho phép của bạn, bạn có thể làm theo quy trình được nêu ở đây https://vi.player.fm/legal.

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Blake Beus 0:01 Are Greg, you want to talk about counterintuitive marketing? What do you mean by that?

Greg Marshall 0:06 counter to of marketing is essentially doing things that maybe you feel like is the opposite of what everyone else is doing? Or maybe you think it wouldn't work, but it does work. Okay. One of my first examples of this was early on, when Facebook ads first started, I was in the fitness gym industry. And you know, this sounds absolutely crazy now, but back then no one in the gym and fitness, particularly brick and mortar gyms would even come close to doing social media marketing, Facebook ads, or even just posting on social, because they just thought, you know, it was either dumb, or waste of time, or it was just too early, and no one else was doing it, which is the number one reason why I wanted to do it. Because no one else was doing right. If there's no one there, you have a higher likelihood of winning, right. And so that's kind of my first experience on like counterintuitive marketing, which is doing things that maybe you would think wouldn't grow the business, but it ends up growing it because it's kind of thinking outside the box and doing things differently than what your competitors, and everyone else in the market is doing. Interesting. And so that's that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today is how to put yourself in that mindset to see different opportunities. So like, for example, a drill that you could do is you could sit down, research your competitors, and see, what are they all doing right now to market their product? And then push yourself to go, how can I do the exact opposite of what. And when I say the exact opposite. I'm not saying changing the message or anything, I'm talking literally the exact opposite, be where they are not right. And I think this is a useful drill, whether you decide to do these marketing tactics or not. I think it's worth doing to just challenge yourself to try to come up with some different ideas, because marketing is also a creative act. And this is where you should, especially if you're someone who likes to be creative or wants to be in a creative space, this is the time to do how to do things differently than what everyone else is doing.

Blake Beus 2:25 Okay. Okay, so. So what are some examples? I mean, you talked about you talked about social media, back in the day with gyms and everything, and and I'm gonna guess many people when they heard you say that the first thing they were saying they they thought of was probably something like, no one in my industry is running tick tock ads I've ever run tick tock ads, right. But that feels a little bit like chasing a shiny new object as opposed to zagging when everybody else is Zig? Yep. What do you think? Yeah, so

Greg Marshall 2:57 there's definitely a level of shiny new object. But the first thing you have to think about is, is my market there, right? So that's probably where you should start. So like, if a platform is purely teenagers, and you sell to 50 year old adults, then it's not the right fit. But this is why you want to brainstorm to think, is there is my Market. And this is where you have to truly understand who you're going after? Is my market, actually, on these platforms? Or where they're at? Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So what you want to be thinking about is like, first understand your market and then go, where are some places that they are at that my competitors are not? Right, or they're not thinking about? Mm hmm, you see what I mean? And so if you do that, what'll end up happening is, you're basically playing a game with no competition. And then your goal is to as quickly as possible on that real estate, because the competitors will show up. As soon as people see anyone making money at anything, there will be competitors, breaking the doors down to go in and do the same exact thing. And so anytime you find a strategy that you have to move quick. Okay. So that's that's kind of how I look at is like, instead of chasing the shiny new object, First understand is your market actually there? And like, in the Facebook instance, I knew, well, I'm staring at 3040 50 year olds that are my target market, women and at the time, Facebook was more popular than Instagram. Instagram was like, still brand new. Yeah. So they were already on Facebook, using it like they're using Instagram today. Right? But no one was really doing anything to target them. Right. And that's when organic reach was huge. That's when Facebook ad costs really low. It was a big opportunity. So I went in and capitalized. Yeah. And that's that's what I mean is to be thinking about places that your market is at, that other people just aren't thinking about, because there was no In the gym world, it's all about billboards, and TV ads and direct mail. Right? And that's what every gym was doing. Yeah, and door hangers and all that. And so I said, Well, the same people are online. But the gyms, my competitors are not marketing. They're so therefore I can get in cheaper and faster, right. easier and and appear to be the only business in town. Yeah. Because that was at the moment, right, just on that platform.

Blake Beus 5:30 Okay. Okay. That's interesting. So, I mean, obviously, this can be applied to a wide range of businesses. I think one of the things that comes to my mind when you're talking about this is the first, the very first thing comes to my mind is, this is oftentimes a little bit harder than it sounds in that it's new territory, or if people aren't there, you can't just look at someone else's strategy and basically duplicate a strategy, which is what a lot of marketers do. Yeah. I mean, I've done that in the past, as well. And that's, it's fine. If you you can learn from what's working, then then run with that. But finding a new area that isn't completely saturated, and diving into that. I will say is going to be a little more frustrating and take a little bit more time than someone might expect.

Greg Marshall 6:20 Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you almost have to look like this. Number one, the mindset has to be you're willing to test and willing to fail if it doesn't work out, right? Without without taking massive discouragement from it not working. But understanding you're really a phrase I heard one time I can't member who said it, but you're you're drilling for oil. Hmm. So most of your stuff that you're gonna try is not going to work. But when you do find one that works, it's going to be well worth the failed experiments in the past, right? And so yes, it is a little bit more difficult to find these places. But it's, it's definitely worth it. And you just have to like, think about how can can I use and view things slightly different? So if you're looking at, for example, like digital marketing, right, everyone's on digital, everyone's on Instagram, Facebook, whatever. And all the competitors are on there. But a different way to look at it too, though, is there are some industries that don't use digital as much. So digital still can be a place to do it. Right. Right. Like, you know, you see a lot of insurance agents there. I don't see very many insurance agents, doing social media, right? Especially when it comes to using paid ads, right? Or like attorneys or so there's so it's industry based, it's what your competitors are doing. If you're in like a mass market, like a fitness or dating or making money opportunities, most of these digital places are going to be flooded with people, right pushing this stuff, right. But if you're anything else outside of those industries, they're pretty much it's still wide open, right? Because most of the competitors are not investing because they're still doing only the traditional strategy. Billboards, direct mail, TV.

Blake Beus 8:08 Yeah, well, I would, I would say two. Most local businesses really don't do a very good job with digital marketing. And local traffic is cheap. Yes. Like you can you can saturate a city. On the cheap, if you want to get a video out there or something like that, it'd be known as the place to go to for XYZ services. You can get that video out there. And And honestly, it works even better if you're in a boring industry, right? I've had people come to me say, Oh, my industry is boring at a title company. It's boring. Well, I got what do I how do I and we talked about some things. But title companies make a lot of money. They have a lot of money to put towards advertising, which can easily translate into a very, very high ROI. And it's a wide open field. Yep. No one in the title industries doing a good job on digital ads. No,

Greg Marshall 9:07 it's because what you just said, it's counterintuitive. Every single title company is thinking the same thing. We're so boring. How do we promote our title company? Yeah. So therefore they don't even try? Yeah.

Blake Beus 9:21 Yeah. And I mean, this is where my brain gets going. Because I love brainstorming. I love sitting down with the client brainstorming. And if if if we have anybody in the title company listening to this, this is where my brain goes. I'm like, Okay, fine. You think your industry is boring. Lean into that. record some videos that are the most boring videos and just own up the boringness be like, hey, just another boring title company video and tell a story or whatever we like. We'd love to have you come in Yep. We'll make it super boring because no one likes an exciting title experience they want calm, boring. Yep, everything put together and just make this whole series of boring videos, that's something that would go nuts

Greg Marshall 10:02 online. Well, and that's something that no one's really trying. Because like we said, the assumption within that industry is that, well, we can do social media cuz we don't have anything fun to post. So that's, that's counterintuitive marketing, because everyone else is intuitively thinking, we have to do direct mail and the other traditional ways, because that's the only way. That's how we've always done it. And sometimes it's good to try to break through and find new ways to do it, because that's where a lot of the opportunity is going to be. And so I think, like, I actually saw an ad yesterday, that was that that I liked a lot. And it's a local comp, it's, I could tell they were locally targeting. It was actually Top Golf. Okay. And it was on tick tock, okay. And I said, Wow, see, they get it because traffic costs right now, tick tock, particularly local marketing is basically free. And so you can reach a ton of people for a very low amount of money. And the fact that they're doing it and they got creative with it, I can assure you, that campaign is performing well, based off of dollars invested to dollars return, because when you're in, when you're in a less competitive platform, or you're not, you know, you're not everyone's going after the same people. That dollar, even if it's not as effective, like the conversion rate isn't great. It's still great, because it's so cheap, that if you convert one out of 1000, but you're paying $2, to reset 1000 It makes Yeah, economic sense. And so that's kind of and you can build a brand that way. Because you're you are bringing up clinical branding yourself while still doing direct response. So I just feel like doing things where it almost feels, I don't know, for lack of better word dumb, or scary or almost irresponsible to do, right. Like, you almost feel a response I'm going to run tic tock ads for for like a grown up business. But, you know, it's it's always worth a try. Because you don't know, and we don't want to make the assumption that we do know. Right. Right. And that's, that's something that I find a lot of businesses, business owners make is breaking the golden rule of assuming everyone consumes and purchases exactly like you. That's not true. Everyone, these platforms wouldn't exist, unless there was a demand. Right. Right. And so people behave differently.

Blake Beus 12:30 Yeah. Yeah. And I've also seen a lot of people I've talked with several people that have said, you know, tick tock is just for younger, younger audiences. Yeah, whatever. And it's not there's there's a wide range of people on there. And honestly, not a lot of people on Tik Tok are monetizing their followings here well, at all, in fact, most of them aren't. Yeah. And so there definitely is some opportunity there to to make some moves, you just have to think about and think it through. And like, like you said, maybe Zig when everybody else is zagging along those lines. But I'd like to talk about one of the one of the things and this is old school marketing, but I feel like so many companies leave it and we talk about all the time, but it's email marketing. Oh, yeah. It really is this wide open field. And, and it is a place that a lot of businesses just aren't leveraging they, I can't tell you how many people have have told me recently that, well, email marketing is dead. I said that, yeah, 12 years ago,

Greg Marshall 13:36 it still will probably gonna say it's only

Blake Beus 13:41 it's the marketing channel that just won't die. And you need to use is one of the cheapest marketing channels to, but it very well could be part of the unintuitive marketing.

Greg Marshall 13:52 Well, if I see where you're going, yes, sometimes counter to have does not mean brand new. Right? counter to can be well, intuitively, we should all do Instagram. Well, everyone's thinking that right? So the counter to it was, well, why don't we lean on email, right? Since now, no one's doing that. Right. You see what I mean? So like, I'm happy brought that up just because I don't want to confuse be one of the thinking. counterintuitive means brand new unknown, some secret, you know, treasure chest hidden. This is just thinking the opposite of where your competitors and so sorry to cut you off. I just want

Blake Beus 14:33 to know that's the exact point I was trying to make is it doesn't it doesn't have to be the shiny new social media platform. Everybody thinks about social media as the next new thing. I mean, I see people hopping on clubhouse the audio only when I tried that for a little bit. I was just like, This is not my fair. It's not gonna work. I'm not for me. I'm sure it'll work for somebody. But then I also saw like four or five direct tick tock competitors that have cropped up in The last six or so months, especially when President Trump said he was going to ban tick tock knighted states, all these, like startups piling up. And, and some of those emerged and I got an invite to one of those and you know, everybody's trying to find the next new shiny object and that's fine. Try it out. But sometimes the old school stuff is what's going to convert sometimes just those old school principals, because everybody else has moved on. Yep. Unless left this, you know, void of, of, you know,

Greg Marshall 15:31 yeah, channel that that basically used to be the Facebook, and Instagram, right of marketing, which was, in the past, it was all about direct mail and Billboard, and then email came along, and that was this, like, wow, you can just send free messages without having to pay for postage or anything. And then, you know, everyone started doing that. And then, you know, Google Ads came out, and now is the thing, and then Facebook ads came out. And there's always gonna be a new thing. You could go back to things that used to work because everyone's left, but they still have huge saturation, because and when I say saturation, not with businesses, but with consumers, like consumers haven't changed as far as we still use Google, for the most part, right? Or if we don't, it's a giant percentage of people who do. And the same thing with, we still all use email, right? Like, we're like that hasn't, it's not like, because email marketing, the open rates have lower, that doesn't mean that the consumer has stopped using email, it's just that you have to change how you're doing it. But that's just, you know, counter to market is all about thinking about your business, and just how can you be different? And how can you do things that can give yourself a competitive advantage, because there always is a way to give your business a competitive advantage, with the assumption that the market actually wants what you have. Right, right.

Blake Beus 16:54 Yeah. So so I kind of want to do dive into a couple of specifics. I know we have some listeners that are in software as a service companies, right. So that's a company that provides an online service, you pay monthly subscription to a lot of times they're very tech forward and quite progressive, because they're in the tech kind of area. Tell me some ways you think they could explore some uncharted territory?

Greg Marshall 17:30 Well, you think about first, who are they going after? Right? So give me an example of Mark it will we think about?

Blake Beus 17:40 Let's, let's say it would be, let's let's just come up with something like a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce.

Greg Marshall 17:51 Alright, so a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce. So one of the things that you can think about is like, the first step I would take is go, who's, who's my competitor, or who's doing some similar to what I'm doing? And then I would write down all their strategies, whatever, whatever they're doing maybe Google search campaigns, YouTube campaigns, social media, and then whatever angle that they're not attacking, I would say, all right, almost like you would take an inventory of every channel that's available to you. And then say, you go one by one, and you would say, All right, so are these guys on Tik Tok? Are these guys on forums? Are these guys using? You know, email lists, partner email is with other influencers? Or people who have that audience? Is there some conferences that I can speak at? And is my competitors doing any of that? And if not find where those channels that converts really well. So you'd want to test each channel? Yeah, as as cost effectively as possible. Don't put yourself out of business, but test each channel and then see, can I gain some traction on any of these channels, and then whatever one of those channels are, go all in on that channel as quickly as humanly possible. Because like I said, the competitors will figure out what you're doing, and then they'll start doing it. And so I would say, look into whatever channels that are available, that are not being tapped into. And if they have your market, start testing those and then see which one of those gives you the most traction. And then once you find one, go heavy in on it all and put all your resources in it, and just try to basically extract as much ROI as you possibly can before the rest.

Blake Beus 19:32 Well, the good thing about that with with software as a service companies with that strategy is they make money over time, right? It's a subscription service. So as long as they're, you know, their churn rates are low and they're providing a good service. All the new customers they sign up even if someone else figures out what what they're doing, tries to tries to steal some of that market share. You know, they've got customers for life essentially. Yeah, and

Greg Marshall 19:54 I think the the subscription model is really popular cheap because you can pay a little bit more to acquire cash Summer, just because you know, the, you know, the lifetime value is typically much higher than like a one time purchase, right? And so you don't have to, like keep selling them. But yeah, I would, you know, if I was a SaaS company and I was trying to grow, I would probably look heavily into places that the competition almost like, puts their nose up and say, we would never do that. Because then you have an even more competitive advantage, because their egos will get in the way of them trying this technique, if it's working for you, right, which gives you buys you more time to be able to do it, because most people they don't want to be wrong. And so if they say this will never work, they want to make sure that right, and so therefore they won't do it. And so it gives you a huge time advantage to just go horrible. They're never going to enter. So yeah, let's Let's speed this up even more. So by the time someone on their team, or their you know, their board members tell him you better get on here. It's too late. You've already acquired.

Blake Beus 21:02 Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about shift gears just a little bit. And and talk about a strategy. I've seen work in this regards. So we've talked about channels, right? Where it like there's some some uncharted territory channels. But one of the things a lot of people don't realize is, you know, this is your business, or you're working at this business here. Maybe the uncharted territory is a new product or new idea, you can create that. So if you see an opportunity for a different angle, on on on the people, so you're not directly competing with Yeah, with whatever. Even if it's maybe a first ask company, maybe it's a lower priced yet tier that addresses a very specific need that people have right before they're ready for your a higher priced tier. Or, you know, if your local business that does, I don't know, I don't know something. Instead of having direct competition with other local businesses, you can shift that model just a little bit. You don't have to abandon your old model, but you shift your model and offer something new. And that could be your uncharted territory. And I feel like a lot of people get really stuck in the eye, no, this product or service is going to work. Yeah, it needs to work. It's worked for 10 years, it's going to continue to work for 10 more years. And I'm not saying that's not gonna work, but I'm saying maybe people maybe we need to market to people that aren't quite ready for that. And we need to sell them a product or service that gets them ready for your core product or offer. Absolutely. And that could be the the uncharted territory that that you lean into as well.

Greg Marshall 22:33 Well, I think Do you know who? The fact that you said that reminds me of Dino Peter Thiel is, so Peter Thiel was the first investor, or one of the early investors of Facebook, okay. And he was also involved, I believe, with PayPal, okay. And he's a huge Silicon Valley. I mean, I'm pretty sure this guy's a billionaire. But anyways, you probably say This guy knows a little bit about adopting or going with the flow and how you talk about successful coaching. And I read his book, I can't remember the name of the book, but he had a book where he said, you can get a competitive advantage, even just by the sales channel or strategy that you have. Right, and that and basically, what you're saying is coming up with a new offer, or a new product, new service, or just rebranding the same thing, a different way, can really give you a competitive advantage. And even if you look at certain times, because the market changes, the demands are different in different stages, so it's safe to say right now, if you had an offer, right, you know, the make money online, you know, offer right now, or, you know, social media ads, you know, that was that was a big one, too. The new offer would be going in and saying, Hey, are you scared to death, about iOS 14 tracking, and the cookieless feature that we're, you know, about to start participating in, and I have a solution for them, that will help you, you know, quote, unquote, fix that and know exactly how your sales go. That product or service right there will sell like crazy now, that service might exist? I don't know. But I know that offer will attract a lot of people. Yeah. Because you're you're banking on what people have lost. So right now people feel like they've been stripped of their privileges have been taken away. A lot of marketers feel right. So if you can tell them that you can give them their privileges back and you're the only one you're going to get sales. Right. And that so that would be a strategy of counterintuitive if they can, well, why would I sell these people ads? When the real concern is not? I need to, you know, put together ads. The real concern is, I don't know what ads are working. Right. Right. So now that's the new offer. That's the new product. And what what's his name Alex Becker with Hi ROAs he would see, I bet you he's doing fantastic because he came out with his product. About a few months, I believe, before iOS started getting talked about right. And so he was pretty much ready to go with a great offer, knowing that people will be scared to death. Yep, let's iOS hit. And I bet you there's so many people hopped onto the service.

Blake Beus 25:21 Oh, totally. If people don't know what we're talking about, he launched a product called Hieros, which helps, quote unquote, fix attribution between as channels due to losing that when iOS 14 started blocking tracking cookies and things like that.

Greg Marshall 25:38 You're smart enough to know any of this even. So, could you say a little bit about what you think is happening?

Blake Beus 25:44 Yeah, well, essentially, what they're doing is they're they're using some different kind of metrics and things to generate. profiles, and then match those profiles back up. The thing that's interesting is based on tests I've done and some other people have done. It performs about as good as having a good Google Ads strategy and setting up those reports. But sitting those reports is a pain in Google ads, or I'm sorry, Google Analytics and Google Analytics. Because Google Analytics does a pretty good job of tracking some of that stuff. The second thing they do is actually import some of that back into your ads manager, which Google Analytics doesn't do back into Facebook ads. Yeah. But the thing I want to Yeah, the thing I want people to understand is when when he launched this product, it wasn't perfect. Yeah, it had some bugs, it had some things, it's much better. Now. There's other products out there that solve this problem as well. But he was just really positioned, positioned nicely from a timing perspective and everything. So what I'm getting at is, you don't necessarily have to have a perfect solution. Sure. Right. What you need to have is a solution, then get feedback and perfect that over time. And if there are any bugs or issues, you can take care of that in, in the customer support and Long Term Support area. Yeah, right. Because a lot of people have, a lot of businesses have an opportunity to lean into like a new product or offer. But they stress out about not being good enough or whatever, and you don't, you don't need to worry about that stuff quite so much. You kind of need to get it out there. And then perfect as you go, it just works for local businesses, this doesn't have to be like a tech business or whatever. One great example, of of a pivot is, I work in a creative studio, having an office and I'm surrounded by lots of artists, and things like that. And a lot of them were teaching, you know, workshops or selling things. And that's kind of a pretty standard model for an artist, then they'll have some workshops where they teach their skills, and their craft, and then they'll sell their, their pieces or whatever. And then they'll have commissions, right, where someone pays them to make something specific for whatever, right a mural or a painting for an area or a statue for a hotel or something like that. When the pandemic hit, you know, through all all of that kind of out the window, the sales channel got taken away, he got taken away. And so a lot of people leaned into, like zoom classes, and that what that did is it expanded their audience from just a local business to now they could teach anybody, anywhere in the world, right? As long as the time zones matched up, and they were teaching. And, you know, so that was opportunity, but had a lot of those people leaned into that. In 2019, they could have had, there was a lot of opportunity there for these online classes. In 2020. A lot of people leaned into that, and it works. But everybody in their dog was adding into that at that time, because that was like the only way. Right. And so. So that's that's one of those those things to think about, you know how to handle timing or whatever, but it can work for local businesses. It could work for big businesses. Yeah. I mean, all the time. You see it all the time. You see it all over the place. I oftentimes because I do marketing, I think about this stuff when I go to the grocery store. Oh, yeah. I have four kids. And we're there all the time. We're shopping all the time. And unless

Greg Marshall 29:11 you bill I'm sure.

Blake Beus 29:15 It is. But you go to the grocery store, and you got to realize all of the packaging is marketing. Yep. And you see you'll, you'll see all these you'll see changes. You'll see people tweaking things you'll see. See Oreo. Yeah, Oreos is one of my favorites. Yeah. Because they're constantly leaning into all of these new different flavors. Yeah. And that doesn't hurt them to try out a flavor. That doesn't work. Yep. But then they do try to flavor they're like sweet that works. But then what do they do? They pull it off the shelves and then launch it again in four months. Yep. And you know what my kids do? Ah, Dad, we can't get the they have. They have the Star Spangled Banner, ones that have rocked I've had this am I kids every year now need them. They need that. They need they need them. Right. But they found I mean, it's a cook. It's a cookie. Yeah. But they found Uncharted Terry territory in an industry that's been selling cookies for?

Greg Marshall 30:16 I don't know. Yeah, how many different ways to really make

Blake Beus 30:19 out, but they found some ways. Yeah. And you can do that with by by switching up your product offerings as well.

Greg Marshall 30:25 Well, and that's, you know, you bring up the point. And that's really why I brought up that whole Hieros thing is, here's the interesting, so I knew that Alex, you know, cuz I consume a lot of his content. I like his stuff. He was a YouTube ads guy, right. But to give you a good example, he was all about YouTube ads. I was like, forget about Facebook, it's too expensive because of at the time what he was selling. It was too competitive, like meaning not that he couldn't sell it there. Set the prices were too high. Right. So he was all about YouTube ads. But here's the interesting thing. Now I see him I never see him on YouTube. Now I ever see him is on Facebook. But guess why? Because he knows his offering is different. And he's in the space where everyone is panicking, which Facebook advertisers are on Facebook, panicking, Santa. So looking at this, so he's placing this beautifully crafted offer of I can solve your fear right now. And we just click right here and book a call right on Facebook, which is brilliant. I didn't. So I think it's a great stretch so that I brought that up, because that's basically what you're saying about counter to marketing can also be the change of the offer. It doesn't have to be location or platform based.

Blake Beus 31:41 And when you change the offer, the channel might change as well. Correct. Right. And, and all of those are things you can test. And I really hope we're not kind of overwhelming people with a lot of with a lot of this stuff. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. What we're trying to do is speak in general terms, because we have a broad, yeah, listener base in all sorts of different areas. But in your area in your industry, you don't have to think super crazy about a lot of this stuff. Think about what are some ways that can change some things up? What would be the craziest thing and a lot of people, I do this with a lot of my clients, I schedule a split, I book out of time and say we are going to do nothing, we're not going to launch ads, or I'm talking about whatever, we're just going to brainstorm. Yep. And if we come if we write down 100 different angles, or ideas or areas of the site that we feel like need improvement or something, and one of them is good, that our has a huge ROI. Yep. But a lot of people don't don't take the time to just like, throw out ideas if they're crazy or not. Right. And it's, it needs to happen. I think I will

Greg Marshall 32:43 I agree with that. And I think, you know, when you when you talk about that, really the you know how I love Dan Kennedy. He has a saying where he talks about most business owners do random acts of marketing, versus thinking about what they're trying to do. And, and I've been guilty of this before many, many times, which is just doing the activity versus strategically doing two different things. And sitting down and investing an hour where you do nothing but brainstorm, come up with a strategy will give you a much higher ROI than just randomly doing stuff in a panic mode. Right. Right.

Blake Beus 33:28 Right. And I would say when you do that our I don't want you to look at any competitor ideas, nothing. I want you to just sit down and trust, like your intuition and your knowledge of your customers. And just throw out some crazy ideas. Yeah, throw out some crazy stuff.

Greg Marshall 33:45 be a kid again. Right? And you know, I think, you know, I remember I'm big on quotes, because I like to read and I remember reading this, this lady, I think she was like 104 years old, like she was she was up there. Right. And they someone asked her what's the secret to, you know, aging so well, because I guess she still had like a lot of energy. And she was still, you know, very talkative as well. And she said, Well, the secret is to understand adults ruin everything. And to just live your whole life like a kid. Yeah. And I thought that was so impactful. And you know, I think she said it. That's not the exact phrase, but that's how I received it was it's true. When you become an adult, all of your creativity seems I get zapped out of you because you're so you're quote unquote, doing what you're supposed to do. But take some of these times to think about fewer kids again, with no responsibilities, no concerns about what other people think about you or they're gonna think you're a moron for doing this. And just take the hour it's within yourself anyway, so no one's gonna know. Yeah, and just allow yourself to be kidding and say there are no limits to what I I can try. Because what I have found we've worked with some people during brainstorming sessions is they still say, Yeah, but, but that would have worked, but But you have to look at it more like, we don't know if it'll work or not. We're just going to try it. Right. And so that's where I think brainstorming the biggest value is to get yourself in the mindset of like, pretend anything you say will work. And that it's impossible for it not to work. Yeah, just for the sake of allowing yourself because if you don't do that, you're going to give like, kind of, I don't know, boxed in ideas in your brainstorm versus just like, Yeah, let's just try some while and see what happens.

Blake Beus 35:40 And it works. I've seen brands build their entire strategy around doing doing stuff like that. Well, one of my favorites, and you'll probably hear me bring them up over and over and over again, because I love how they market. It's a swim suit company for men called Chevy's. Chevy's. Yeah, never heard of No. Oh, man. Yeah, everyone should go to Instagram and check it out. Okay. But essentially, they've really leaned in hard to the the dad bod, and bring back the short shorts that are really out there. Yeah. And so a lot of their content is, is stuff from like the 80s and 90s. With like, go guys with Molex super short cut off jeans, not 1970s and 80s. And they're like, Well, you know, we need to bring the short shorts. Yeah, yeah. And they're their whole line is these just outrageously colored? swim trunks for men? Yep. And, and their ads, their social media is hilarious. Li their whole brand is centered around this ridiculous notion of short shorts. short shorts aren't going to be for everybody. They get that but they leaned in hard to the short shorts for Dad bonds. Yeah. And it's a it's a great brand and a thermal strategy. Well,

Greg Marshall 36:50 I think it's a great angle. And I think, you know, one of the people, I don't know if people like or dislike this, this gentleman, but Richard Branson, to me, markets, his business, like a kid, and he does it differently, right? All this the publicity stunts and things that he does, it's like you would obviously he is not holding back when it comes to creativity and thinking like, this is not possible. But you can learn a lot from a marker like that, because, you know, he's a billionaire. And he's, he's doing things outside the box, that work. That's still within reason, right? So like, he knows, well, if I go on a hot air balloon across, you know, an ocean, people are probably gonna watch that, right? Because it's, it's out there. But you notice on his balloon, he has his brand version, right? It's one of the SARS techniques to carry T eyeballs. And, and, and the other thing is, you remember, you're like, Man, that's crazy. I can't believe he even a tip. What kind of a maniac would try that. But that's kind of the goal is he's thinking like a kid, like, you know, a six year old kid will think of an idea that and actually try to do it with no, yeah, but nothing holding them back. But you know, you try to get one of us, you know, late 30s, early 40s 50 year old, we won't even think at all to try that. And so that's where I think there's a lot of value into trying to have almost like, no, what, no inhibitions when it comes to you think about your marketing, and what you can do to actually see where the good ideas are at.

Blake Beus 38:31 I love it a lot. All right, well, we'll wrap this one up, Greg, tell tell everyone how they can get in touch with who they want.

Greg Marshall 38:37 Yeah. Just go to my website, Greg marshall.co. And that's dot CEO. And if you want to book a free strategy session, just go ahead and leave your information there. And what about you how they get in touch with you?

Blake Beus 38:48 Just like the stock calm, and I basically have all my info right there.

Greg Marshall 38:51 Great. Well, thanks for listening to us today. Hopefully, you came up with some good ideas. And we'll see you next week. All right.

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Transcript

Blake Beus 0:01 Are Greg, you want to talk about counterintuitive marketing? What do you mean by that?

Greg Marshall 0:06 counter to of marketing is essentially doing things that maybe you feel like is the opposite of what everyone else is doing? Or maybe you think it wouldn't work, but it does work. Okay. One of my first examples of this was early on, when Facebook ads first started, I was in the fitness gym industry. And you know, this sounds absolutely crazy now, but back then no one in the gym and fitness, particularly brick and mortar gyms would even come close to doing social media marketing, Facebook ads, or even just posting on social, because they just thought, you know, it was either dumb, or waste of time, or it was just too early, and no one else was doing it, which is the number one reason why I wanted to do it. Because no one else was doing right. If there's no one there, you have a higher likelihood of winning, right. And so that's kind of my first experience on like counterintuitive marketing, which is doing things that maybe you would think wouldn't grow the business, but it ends up growing it because it's kind of thinking outside the box and doing things differently than what your competitors, and everyone else in the market is doing. Interesting. And so that's that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today is how to put yourself in that mindset to see different opportunities. So like, for example, a drill that you could do is you could sit down, research your competitors, and see, what are they all doing right now to market their product? And then push yourself to go, how can I do the exact opposite of what. And when I say the exact opposite. I'm not saying changing the message or anything, I'm talking literally the exact opposite, be where they are not right. And I think this is a useful drill, whether you decide to do these marketing tactics or not. I think it's worth doing to just challenge yourself to try to come up with some different ideas, because marketing is also a creative act. And this is where you should, especially if you're someone who likes to be creative or wants to be in a creative space, this is the time to do how to do things differently than what everyone else is doing.

Blake Beus 2:25 Okay. Okay, so. So what are some examples? I mean, you talked about you talked about social media, back in the day with gyms and everything, and and I'm gonna guess many people when they heard you say that the first thing they were saying they they thought of was probably something like, no one in my industry is running tick tock ads I've ever run tick tock ads, right. But that feels a little bit like chasing a shiny new object as opposed to zagging when everybody else is Zig? Yep. What do you think? Yeah, so

Greg Marshall 2:57 there's definitely a level of shiny new object. But the first thing you have to think about is, is my market there, right? So that's probably where you should start. So like, if a platform is purely teenagers, and you sell to 50 year old adults, then it's not the right fit. But this is why you want to brainstorm to think, is there is my Market. And this is where you have to truly understand who you're going after? Is my market, actually, on these platforms? Or where they're at? Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So what you want to be thinking about is like, first understand your market and then go, where are some places that they are at that my competitors are not? Right, or they're not thinking about? Mm hmm, you see what I mean? And so if you do that, what'll end up happening is, you're basically playing a game with no competition. And then your goal is to as quickly as possible on that real estate, because the competitors will show up. As soon as people see anyone making money at anything, there will be competitors, breaking the doors down to go in and do the same exact thing. And so anytime you find a strategy that you have to move quick. Okay. So that's that's kind of how I look at is like, instead of chasing the shiny new object, First understand is your market actually there? And like, in the Facebook instance, I knew, well, I'm staring at 3040 50 year olds that are my target market, women and at the time, Facebook was more popular than Instagram. Instagram was like, still brand new. Yeah. So they were already on Facebook, using it like they're using Instagram today. Right? But no one was really doing anything to target them. Right. And that's when organic reach was huge. That's when Facebook ad costs really low. It was a big opportunity. So I went in and capitalized. Yeah. And that's that's what I mean is to be thinking about places that your market is at, that other people just aren't thinking about, because there was no In the gym world, it's all about billboards, and TV ads and direct mail. Right? And that's what every gym was doing. Yeah, and door hangers and all that. And so I said, Well, the same people are online. But the gyms, my competitors are not marketing. They're so therefore I can get in cheaper and faster, right. easier and and appear to be the only business in town. Yeah. Because that was at the moment, right, just on that platform.

Blake Beus 5:30 Okay. Okay. That's interesting. So, I mean, obviously, this can be applied to a wide range of businesses. I think one of the things that comes to my mind when you're talking about this is the first, the very first thing comes to my mind is, this is oftentimes a little bit harder than it sounds in that it's new territory, or if people aren't there, you can't just look at someone else's strategy and basically duplicate a strategy, which is what a lot of marketers do. Yeah. I mean, I've done that in the past, as well. And that's, it's fine. If you you can learn from what's working, then then run with that. But finding a new area that isn't completely saturated, and diving into that. I will say is going to be a little more frustrating and take a little bit more time than someone might expect.

Greg Marshall 6:20 Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you almost have to look like this. Number one, the mindset has to be you're willing to test and willing to fail if it doesn't work out, right? Without without taking massive discouragement from it not working. But understanding you're really a phrase I heard one time I can't member who said it, but you're you're drilling for oil. Hmm. So most of your stuff that you're gonna try is not going to work. But when you do find one that works, it's going to be well worth the failed experiments in the past, right? And so yes, it is a little bit more difficult to find these places. But it's, it's definitely worth it. And you just have to like, think about how can can I use and view things slightly different? So if you're looking at, for example, like digital marketing, right, everyone's on digital, everyone's on Instagram, Facebook, whatever. And all the competitors are on there. But a different way to look at it too, though, is there are some industries that don't use digital as much. So digital still can be a place to do it. Right. Right. Like, you know, you see a lot of insurance agents there. I don't see very many insurance agents, doing social media, right? Especially when it comes to using paid ads, right? Or like attorneys or so there's so it's industry based, it's what your competitors are doing. If you're in like a mass market, like a fitness or dating or making money opportunities, most of these digital places are going to be flooded with people, right pushing this stuff, right. But if you're anything else outside of those industries, they're pretty much it's still wide open, right? Because most of the competitors are not investing because they're still doing only the traditional strategy. Billboards, direct mail, TV.

Blake Beus 8:08 Yeah, well, I would, I would say two. Most local businesses really don't do a very good job with digital marketing. And local traffic is cheap. Yes. Like you can you can saturate a city. On the cheap, if you want to get a video out there or something like that, it'd be known as the place to go to for XYZ services. You can get that video out there. And And honestly, it works even better if you're in a boring industry, right? I've had people come to me say, Oh, my industry is boring at a title company. It's boring. Well, I got what do I how do I and we talked about some things. But title companies make a lot of money. They have a lot of money to put towards advertising, which can easily translate into a very, very high ROI. And it's a wide open field. Yep. No one in the title industries doing a good job on digital ads. No,

Greg Marshall 9:07 it's because what you just said, it's counterintuitive. Every single title company is thinking the same thing. We're so boring. How do we promote our title company? Yeah. So therefore they don't even try? Yeah.

Blake Beus 9:21 Yeah. And I mean, this is where my brain gets going. Because I love brainstorming. I love sitting down with the client brainstorming. And if if if we have anybody in the title company listening to this, this is where my brain goes. I'm like, Okay, fine. You think your industry is boring. Lean into that. record some videos that are the most boring videos and just own up the boringness be like, hey, just another boring title company video and tell a story or whatever we like. We'd love to have you come in Yep. We'll make it super boring because no one likes an exciting title experience they want calm, boring. Yep, everything put together and just make this whole series of boring videos, that's something that would go nuts

Greg Marshall 10:02 online. Well, and that's something that no one's really trying. Because like we said, the assumption within that industry is that, well, we can do social media cuz we don't have anything fun to post. So that's, that's counterintuitive marketing, because everyone else is intuitively thinking, we have to do direct mail and the other traditional ways, because that's the only way. That's how we've always done it. And sometimes it's good to try to break through and find new ways to do it, because that's where a lot of the opportunity is going to be. And so I think, like, I actually saw an ad yesterday, that was that that I liked a lot. And it's a local comp, it's, I could tell they were locally targeting. It was actually Top Golf. Okay. And it was on tick tock, okay. And I said, Wow, see, they get it because traffic costs right now, tick tock, particularly local marketing is basically free. And so you can reach a ton of people for a very low amount of money. And the fact that they're doing it and they got creative with it, I can assure you, that campaign is performing well, based off of dollars invested to dollars return, because when you're in, when you're in a less competitive platform, or you're not, you know, you're not everyone's going after the same people. That dollar, even if it's not as effective, like the conversion rate isn't great. It's still great, because it's so cheap, that if you convert one out of 1000, but you're paying $2, to reset 1000 It makes Yeah, economic sense. And so that's kind of and you can build a brand that way. Because you're you are bringing up clinical branding yourself while still doing direct response. So I just feel like doing things where it almost feels, I don't know, for lack of better word dumb, or scary or almost irresponsible to do, right. Like, you almost feel a response I'm going to run tic tock ads for for like a grown up business. But, you know, it's it's always worth a try. Because you don't know, and we don't want to make the assumption that we do know. Right. Right. And that's, that's something that I find a lot of businesses, business owners make is breaking the golden rule of assuming everyone consumes and purchases exactly like you. That's not true. Everyone, these platforms wouldn't exist, unless there was a demand. Right. Right. And so people behave differently.

Blake Beus 12:30 Yeah. Yeah. And I've also seen a lot of people I've talked with several people that have said, you know, tick tock is just for younger, younger audiences. Yeah, whatever. And it's not there's there's a wide range of people on there. And honestly, not a lot of people on Tik Tok are monetizing their followings here well, at all, in fact, most of them aren't. Yeah. And so there definitely is some opportunity there to to make some moves, you just have to think about and think it through. And like, like you said, maybe Zig when everybody else is zagging along those lines. But I'd like to talk about one of the one of the things and this is old school marketing, but I feel like so many companies leave it and we talk about all the time, but it's email marketing. Oh, yeah. It really is this wide open field. And, and it is a place that a lot of businesses just aren't leveraging they, I can't tell you how many people have have told me recently that, well, email marketing is dead. I said that, yeah, 12 years ago,

Greg Marshall 13:36 it still will probably gonna say it's only

Blake Beus 13:41 it's the marketing channel that just won't die. And you need to use is one of the cheapest marketing channels to, but it very well could be part of the unintuitive marketing.

Greg Marshall 13:52 Well, if I see where you're going, yes, sometimes counter to have does not mean brand new. Right? counter to can be well, intuitively, we should all do Instagram. Well, everyone's thinking that right? So the counter to it was, well, why don't we lean on email, right? Since now, no one's doing that. Right. You see what I mean? So like, I'm happy brought that up just because I don't want to confuse be one of the thinking. counterintuitive means brand new unknown, some secret, you know, treasure chest hidden. This is just thinking the opposite of where your competitors and so sorry to cut you off. I just want

Blake Beus 14:33 to know that's the exact point I was trying to make is it doesn't it doesn't have to be the shiny new social media platform. Everybody thinks about social media as the next new thing. I mean, I see people hopping on clubhouse the audio only when I tried that for a little bit. I was just like, This is not my fair. It's not gonna work. I'm not for me. I'm sure it'll work for somebody. But then I also saw like four or five direct tick tock competitors that have cropped up in The last six or so months, especially when President Trump said he was going to ban tick tock knighted states, all these, like startups piling up. And, and some of those emerged and I got an invite to one of those and you know, everybody's trying to find the next new shiny object and that's fine. Try it out. But sometimes the old school stuff is what's going to convert sometimes just those old school principals, because everybody else has moved on. Yep. Unless left this, you know, void of, of, you know,

Greg Marshall 15:31 yeah, channel that that basically used to be the Facebook, and Instagram, right of marketing, which was, in the past, it was all about direct mail and Billboard, and then email came along, and that was this, like, wow, you can just send free messages without having to pay for postage or anything. And then, you know, everyone started doing that. And then, you know, Google Ads came out, and now is the thing, and then Facebook ads came out. And there's always gonna be a new thing. You could go back to things that used to work because everyone's left, but they still have huge saturation, because and when I say saturation, not with businesses, but with consumers, like consumers haven't changed as far as we still use Google, for the most part, right? Or if we don't, it's a giant percentage of people who do. And the same thing with, we still all use email, right? Like, we're like that hasn't, it's not like, because email marketing, the open rates have lower, that doesn't mean that the consumer has stopped using email, it's just that you have to change how you're doing it. But that's just, you know, counter to market is all about thinking about your business, and just how can you be different? And how can you do things that can give yourself a competitive advantage, because there always is a way to give your business a competitive advantage, with the assumption that the market actually wants what you have. Right, right.

Blake Beus 16:54 Yeah. So so I kind of want to do dive into a couple of specifics. I know we have some listeners that are in software as a service companies, right. So that's a company that provides an online service, you pay monthly subscription to a lot of times they're very tech forward and quite progressive, because they're in the tech kind of area. Tell me some ways you think they could explore some uncharted territory?

Greg Marshall 17:30 Well, you think about first, who are they going after? Right? So give me an example of Mark it will we think about?

Blake Beus 17:40 Let's, let's say it would be, let's let's just come up with something like a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce.

Greg Marshall 17:51 Alright, so a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce. So one of the things that you can think about is like, the first step I would take is go, who's, who's my competitor, or who's doing some similar to what I'm doing? And then I would write down all their strategies, whatever, whatever they're doing maybe Google search campaigns, YouTube campaigns, social media, and then whatever angle that they're not attacking, I would say, all right, almost like you would take an inventory of every channel that's available to you. And then say, you go one by one, and you would say, All right, so are these guys on Tik Tok? Are these guys on forums? Are these guys using? You know, email lists, partner email is with other influencers? Or people who have that audience? Is there some conferences that I can speak at? And is my competitors doing any of that? And if not find where those channels that converts really well. So you'd want to test each channel? Yeah, as as cost effectively as possible. Don't put yourself out of business, but test each channel and then see, can I gain some traction on any of these channels, and then whatever one of those channels are, go all in on that channel as quickly as humanly possible. Because like I said, the competitors will figure out what you're doing, and then they'll start doing it. And so I would say, look into whatever channels that are available, that are not being tapped into. And if they have your market, start testing those and then see which one of those gives you the most traction. And then once you find one, go heavy in on it all and put all your resources in it, and just try to basically extract as much ROI as you possibly can before the rest.

Blake Beus 19:32 Well, the good thing about that with with software as a service companies with that strategy is they make money over time, right? It's a subscription service. So as long as they're, you know, their churn rates are low and they're providing a good service. All the new customers they sign up even if someone else figures out what what they're doing, tries to tries to steal some of that market share. You know, they've got customers for life essentially. Yeah, and

Greg Marshall 19:54 I think the the subscription model is really popular cheap because you can pay a little bit more to acquire cash Summer, just because you know, the, you know, the lifetime value is typically much higher than like a one time purchase, right? And so you don't have to, like keep selling them. But yeah, I would, you know, if I was a SaaS company and I was trying to grow, I would probably look heavily into places that the competition almost like, puts their nose up and say, we would never do that. Because then you have an even more competitive advantage, because their egos will get in the way of them trying this technique, if it's working for you, right, which gives you buys you more time to be able to do it, because most people they don't want to be wrong. And so if they say this will never work, they want to make sure that right, and so therefore they won't do it. And so it gives you a huge time advantage to just go horrible. They're never going to enter. So yeah, let's Let's speed this up even more. So by the time someone on their team, or their you know, their board members tell him you better get on here. It's too late. You've already acquired.

Blake Beus 21:02 Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about shift gears just a little bit. And and talk about a strategy. I've seen work in this regards. So we've talked about channels, right? Where it like there's some some uncharted territory channels. But one of the things a lot of people don't realize is, you know, this is your business, or you're working at this business here. Maybe the uncharted territory is a new product or new idea, you can create that. So if you see an opportunity for a different angle, on on on the people, so you're not directly competing with Yeah, with whatever. Even if it's maybe a first ask company, maybe it's a lower priced yet tier that addresses a very specific need that people have right before they're ready for your a higher priced tier. Or, you know, if your local business that does, I don't know, I don't know something. Instead of having direct competition with other local businesses, you can shift that model just a little bit. You don't have to abandon your old model, but you shift your model and offer something new. And that could be your uncharted territory. And I feel like a lot of people get really stuck in the eye, no, this product or service is going to work. Yeah, it needs to work. It's worked for 10 years, it's going to continue to work for 10 more years. And I'm not saying that's not gonna work, but I'm saying maybe people maybe we need to market to people that aren't quite ready for that. And we need to sell them a product or service that gets them ready for your core product or offer. Absolutely. And that could be the the uncharted territory that that you lean into as well.

Greg Marshall 22:33 Well, I think Do you know who? The fact that you said that reminds me of Dino Peter Thiel is, so Peter Thiel was the first investor, or one of the early investors of Facebook, okay. And he was also involved, I believe, with PayPal, okay. And he's a huge Silicon Valley. I mean, I'm pretty sure this guy's a billionaire. But anyways, you probably say This guy knows a little bit about adopting or going with the flow and how you talk about successful coaching. And I read his book, I can't remember the name of the book, but he had a book where he said, you can get a competitive advantage, even just by the sales channel or strategy that you have. Right, and that and basically, what you're saying is coming up with a new offer, or a new product, new service, or just rebranding the same thing, a different way, can really give you a competitive advantage. And even if you look at certain times, because the market changes, the demands are different in different stages, so it's safe to say right now, if you had an offer, right, you know, the make money online, you know, offer right now, or, you know, social media ads, you know, that was that was a big one, too. The new offer would be going in and saying, Hey, are you scared to death, about iOS 14 tracking, and the cookieless feature that we're, you know, about to start participating in, and I have a solution for them, that will help you, you know, quote, unquote, fix that and know exactly how your sales go. That product or service right there will sell like crazy now, that service might exist? I don't know. But I know that offer will attract a lot of people. Yeah. Because you're you're banking on what people have lost. So right now people feel like they've been stripped of their privileges have been taken away. A lot of marketers feel right. So if you can tell them that you can give them their privileges back and you're the only one you're going to get sales. Right. And that so that would be a strategy of counterintuitive if they can, well, why would I sell these people ads? When the real concern is not? I need to, you know, put together ads. The real concern is, I don't know what ads are working. Right. Right. So now that's the new offer. That's the new product. And what what's his name Alex Becker with Hi ROAs he would see, I bet you he's doing fantastic because he came out with his product. About a few months, I believe, before iOS started getting talked about right. And so he was pretty much ready to go with a great offer, knowing that people will be scared to death. Yep, let's iOS hit. And I bet you there's so many people hopped onto the service.

Blake Beus 25:21 Oh, totally. If people don't know what we're talking about, he launched a product called Hieros, which helps, quote unquote, fix attribution between as channels due to losing that when iOS 14 started blocking tracking cookies and things like that.

Greg Marshall 25:38 You're smart enough to know any of this even. So, could you say a little bit about what you think is happening?

Blake Beus 25:44 Yeah, well, essentially, what they're doing is they're they're using some different kind of metrics and things to generate. profiles, and then match those profiles back up. The thing that's interesting is based on tests I've done and some other people have done. It performs about as good as having a good Google Ads strategy and setting up those reports. But sitting those reports is a pain in Google ads, or I'm sorry, Google Analytics and Google Analytics. Because Google Analytics does a pretty good job of tracking some of that stuff. The second thing they do is actually import some of that back into your ads manager, which Google Analytics doesn't do back into Facebook ads. Yeah. But the thing I want to Yeah, the thing I want people to understand is when when he launched this product, it wasn't perfect. Yeah, it had some bugs, it had some things, it's much better. Now. There's other products out there that solve this problem as well. But he was just really positioned, positioned nicely from a timing perspective and everything. So what I'm getting at is, you don't necessarily have to have a perfect solution. Sure. Right. What you need to have is a solution, then get feedback and perfect that over time. And if there are any bugs or issues, you can take care of that in, in the customer support and Long Term Support area. Yeah, right. Because a lot of people have, a lot of businesses have an opportunity to lean into like a new product or offer. But they stress out about not being good enough or whatever, and you don't, you don't need to worry about that stuff quite so much. You kind of need to get it out there. And then perfect as you go, it just works for local businesses, this doesn't have to be like a tech business or whatever. One great example, of of a pivot is, I work in a creative studio, having an office and I'm surrounded by lots of artists, and things like that. And a lot of them were teaching, you know, workshops or selling things. And that's kind of a pretty standard model for an artist, then they'll have some workshops where they teach their skills, and their craft, and then they'll sell their, their pieces or whatever. And then they'll have commissions, right, where someone pays them to make something specific for whatever, right a mural or a painting for an area or a statue for a hotel or something like that. When the pandemic hit, you know, through all all of that kind of out the window, the sales channel got taken away, he got taken away. And so a lot of people leaned into, like zoom classes, and that what that did is it expanded their audience from just a local business to now they could teach anybody, anywhere in the world, right? As long as the time zones matched up, and they were teaching. And, you know, so that was opportunity, but had a lot of those people leaned into that. In 2019, they could have had, there was a lot of opportunity there for these online classes. In 2020. A lot of people leaned into that, and it works. But everybody in their dog was adding into that at that time, because that was like the only way. Right. And so. So that's that's one of those those things to think about, you know how to handle timing or whatever, but it can work for local businesses. It could work for big businesses. Yeah. I mean, all the time. You see it all the time. You see it all over the place. I oftentimes because I do marketing, I think about this stuff when I go to the grocery store. Oh, yeah. I have four kids. And we're there all the time. We're shopping all the time. And unless

Greg Marshall 29:11 you bill I'm sure.

Blake Beus 29:15 It is. But you go to the grocery store, and you got to realize all of the packaging is marketing. Yep. And you see you'll, you'll see all these you'll see changes. You'll see people tweaking things you'll see. See Oreo. Yeah, Oreos is one of my favorites. Yeah. Because they're constantly leaning into all of these new different flavors. Yeah. And that doesn't hurt them to try out a flavor. That doesn't work. Yep. But then they do try to flavor they're like sweet that works. But then what do they do? They pull it off the shelves and then launch it again in four months. Yep. And you know what my kids do? Ah, Dad, we can't get the they have. They have the Star Spangled Banner, ones that have rocked I've had this am I kids every year now need them. They need that. They need they need them. Right. But they found I mean, it's a cook. It's a cookie. Yeah. But they found Uncharted Terry territory in an industry that's been selling cookies for?

Greg Marshall 30:16 I don't know. Yeah, how many different ways to really make

Blake Beus 30:19 out, but they found some ways. Yeah. And you can do that with by by switching up your product offerings as well.

Greg Marshall 30:25 Well, and that's, you know, you bring up the point. And that's really why I brought up that whole Hieros thing is, here's the interesting, so I knew that Alex, you know, cuz I consume a lot of his content. I like his stuff. He was a YouTube ads guy, right. But to give you a good example, he was all about YouTube ads. I was like, forget about Facebook, it's too expensive because of at the time what he was selling. It was too competitive, like meaning not that he couldn't sell it there. Set the prices were too high. Right. So he was all about YouTube ads. But here's the interesting thing. Now I see him I never see him on YouTube. Now I ever see him is on Facebook. But guess why? Because he knows his offering is different. And he's in the space where everyone is panicking, which Facebook advertisers are on Facebook, panicking, Santa. So looking at this, so he's placing this beautifully crafted offer of I can solve your fear right now. And we just click right here and book a call right on Facebook, which is brilliant. I didn't. So I think it's a great stretch so that I brought that up, because that's basically what you're saying about counter to marketing can also be the change of the offer. It doesn't have to be location or platform based.

Blake Beus 31:41 And when you change the offer, the channel might change as well. Correct. Right. And, and all of those are things you can test. And I really hope we're not kind of overwhelming people with a lot of with a lot of this stuff. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. What we're trying to do is speak in general terms, because we have a broad, yeah, listener base in all sorts of different areas. But in your area in your industry, you don't have to think super crazy about a lot of this stuff. Think about what are some ways that can change some things up? What would be the craziest thing and a lot of people, I do this with a lot of my clients, I schedule a split, I book out of time and say we are going to do nothing, we're not going to launch ads, or I'm talking about whatever, we're just going to brainstorm. Yep. And if we come if we write down 100 different angles, or ideas or areas of the site that we feel like need improvement or something, and one of them is good, that our has a huge ROI. Yep. But a lot of people don't don't take the time to just like, throw out ideas if they're crazy or not. Right. And it's, it needs to happen. I think I will

Greg Marshall 32:43 I agree with that. And I think, you know, when you when you talk about that, really the you know how I love Dan Kennedy. He has a saying where he talks about most business owners do random acts of marketing, versus thinking about what they're trying to do. And, and I've been guilty of this before many, many times, which is just doing the activity versus strategically doing two different things. And sitting down and investing an hour where you do nothing but brainstorm, come up with a strategy will give you a much higher ROI than just randomly doing stuff in a panic mode. Right. Right.

Blake Beus 33:28 Right. And I would say when you do that our I don't want you to look at any competitor ideas, nothing. I want you to just sit down and trust, like your intuition and your knowledge of your customers. And just throw out some crazy ideas. Yeah, throw out some crazy stuff.

Greg Marshall 33:45 be a kid again. Right? And you know, I think, you know, I remember I'm big on quotes, because I like to read and I remember reading this, this lady, I think she was like 104 years old, like she was she was up there. Right. And they someone asked her what's the secret to, you know, aging so well, because I guess she still had like a lot of energy. And she was still, you know, very talkative as well. And she said, Well, the secret is to understand adults ruin everything. And to just live your whole life like a kid. Yeah. And I thought that was so impactful. And you know, I think she said it. That's not the exact phrase, but that's how I received it was it's true. When you become an adult, all of your creativity seems I get zapped out of you because you're so you're quote unquote, doing what you're supposed to do. But take some of these times to think about fewer kids again, with no responsibilities, no concerns about what other people think about you or they're gonna think you're a moron for doing this. And just take the hour it's within yourself anyway, so no one's gonna know. Yeah, and just allow yourself to be kidding and say there are no limits to what I I can try. Because what I have found we've worked with some people during brainstorming sessions is they still say, Yeah, but, but that would have worked, but But you have to look at it more like, we don't know if it'll work or not. We're just going to try it. Right. And so that's where I think brainstorming the biggest value is to get yourself in the mindset of like, pretend anything you say will work. And that it's impossible for it not to work. Yeah, just for the sake of allowing yourself because if you don't do that, you're going to give like, kind of, I don't know, boxed in ideas in your brainstorm versus just like, Yeah, let's just try some while and see what happens.

Blake Beus 35:40 And it works. I've seen brands build their entire strategy around doing doing stuff like that. Well, one of my favorites, and you'll probably hear me bring them up over and over and over again, because I love how they market. It's a swim suit company for men called Chevy's. Chevy's. Yeah, never heard of No. Oh, man. Yeah, everyone should go to Instagram and check it out. Okay. But essentially, they've really leaned in hard to the the dad bod, and bring back the short shorts that are really out there. Yeah. And so a lot of their content is, is stuff from like the 80s and 90s. With like, go guys with Molex super short cut off jeans, not 1970s and 80s. And they're like, Well, you know, we need to bring the short shorts. Yeah, yeah. And they're their whole line is these just outrageously colored? swim trunks for men? Yep. And, and their ads, their social media is hilarious. Li their whole brand is centered around this ridiculous notion of short shorts. short shorts aren't going to be for everybody. They get that but they leaned in hard to the short shorts for Dad bonds. Yeah. And it's a it's a great brand and a thermal strategy. Well,

Greg Marshall 36:50 I think it's a great angle. And I think, you know, one of the people, I don't know if people like or dislike this, this gentleman, but Richard Branson, to me, markets, his business, like a kid, and he does it differently, right? All this the publicity stunts and things that he does, it's like you would obviously he is not holding back when it comes to creativity and thinking like, this is not possible. But you can learn a lot from a marker like that, because, you know, he's a billionaire. And he's, he's doing things outside the box, that work. That's still within reason, right? So like, he knows, well, if I go on a hot air balloon across, you know, an ocean, people are probably gonna watch that, right? Because it's, it's out there. But you notice on his balloon, he has his brand version, right? It's one of the SARS techniques to carry T eyeballs. And, and, and the other thing is, you remember, you're like, Man, that's crazy. I can't believe he even a tip. What kind of a maniac would try that. But that's kind of the goal is he's thinking like a kid, like, you know, a six year old kid will think of an idea that and actually try to do it with no, yeah, but nothing holding them back. But you know, you try to get one of us, you know, late 30s, early 40s 50 year old, we won't even think at all to try that. And so that's where I think there's a lot of value into trying to have almost like, no, what, no inhibitions when it comes to you think about your marketing, and what you can do to actually see where the good ideas are at.

Blake Beus 38:31 I love it a lot. All right, well, we'll wrap this one up, Greg, tell tell everyone how they can get in touch with who they want.

Greg Marshall 38:37 Yeah. Just go to my website, Greg marshall.co. And that's dot CEO. And if you want to book a free strategy session, just go ahead and leave your information there. And what about you how they get in touch with you?

Blake Beus 38:48 Just like the stock calm, and I basically have all my info right there.

Greg Marshall 38:51 Great. Well, thanks for listening to us today. Hopefully, you came up with some good ideas. And we'll see you next week. All right.

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