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The Pursuit of Health is a weekly podcast dedicated to a thorough exploration of the American Healthcare System at a critical time in our nation’s history. The podcast’s creator and host, Dr. Eric Fethke, is a pediatric cardiologist and educator trained at Columbia University, with over 25 years of experience practicing medicine. Students, professionals, and everyday people alike are invited to learn from guest experts who are pursuing groundbreaking work to improve America's health. Join us ...
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See, Hear, Feel

Professor Christine J Ko, MD

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See, Hear, Feel - many of us do these without thinking much about them. Experts in psychology explain important concepts that will improve your ability to observe, listen, and manage emotions. Listen to amazing researchers and authors on subjects like emotional intelligence and everyday illusions, and also hear from doctors how they apply principles of cognitive psychology for better doctoring, health, and wellness.
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This episode of SEE HEAR FEEL is an edited version of an episode from the podcast, The Pursuit of Health with Dr. Eric Fethke. Dr. Fethke and I talk about my journey in healthcare, professionally and personally. The discussion emphasizes the importance of improving doctor-patient connections through empathy and psychological understanding. Key topi…
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Send us a text The only barrier to success in the Pursuit of Health is ourselves. Joining to contribute to our ongoing healthcare conversation, is self-described “recovering managed care executive” Ron Howrigon. As President and CEO of Fulcrum Industries, Ron is in the business of helping physicians and hospitals with negotiations for managed care …
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In this inaugural rebranding episode, Christine announces changing SEE HEAR FEEL to the Girl Doc Survival Guide podcast. The focus will be on navigating the high-stress, high-stakes world of healthcare, aiming not just to survive but to flourish. Featuring discussions with doctors, psychologists, and mental health experts, the podcast will explore …
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, host Christine speaks with Dr. Yemi Sokumbi, a dermatologist and dermatopathologist at Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida, who is also the head of medical business development. They discuss key takeaways for innovation in healthcare, including the importance of embracing failure, solving familiar problems, and cr…
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, Dr. Dennis Proffitt, Commonwealth Professor of Psychology, Emeritus at University of Virginia, shares insights from his expansive research on perception and interoception. Dr. Proffitt discusses how social, emotional, and physical factors influence how people perceive space, including practical examples from his re…
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, Christine J. Ko welcomes Dr. Gregory A. Hosler, president of the Dermatopathology Division of Sonic Healthcare USA. The conversation delves into his recent study on diagnostic discordance in dermatopathology, exploring its implications for patient management and highlighting the importance of ancillary testing and …
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Send us a text A conversation with Dr. Christine Ko Metacognition, growth mindset, compassion. How does this all tie into healthcare? Enter Dr. Christine Ko, Professor of Dermatology and Pathology at Yale University, and author of How to Improve Doctor-Patient Connection: Using Psychology to Optimize Healthcare Interactions. Drawing from her experi…
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, host Christine welcomes Dr. Benno Torgler, a Professor of Economics at Queensland University of Technology. They discuss Dr. Torgler's fascinating journey from mechanical engineering to economics and his significant research on heart rate variability (HRV). The conversation delves deep into the integration of physi…
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, Dr. Rosalie Elenitsas from the University of Pennsylvania shares her extensive experience in dermatopathology. She discusses her career journey, the importance of daily consensus conferences, learning from junior colleagues, and managing work-life balance. Dr. Elenitsas also offers valuable advice on building a sup…
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Send us a text A conversation with Dr. Michael Smith Medication is sometimes required. But prevention starts with the patient. This is one of the core philosophies of this week’s guest Dr. Michael Smith. Naturopathic physician, and founder of Focused Family Integrative Medicine, he is dedicated to preventative medicine - advocating for sleep, exerc…
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, Dr. Gauri Agarwal, an associate professor and associate dean of curriculum at the University of Miami's Miller School of Medicine, discusses the importance of integrating visual thinking strategies into medical education. Dr. Agarwal shares a touching anecdote about a hospital chaplain during the pandemic to explor…
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Send us a text A conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Charles Hardy The system is not the solution, the process is the solution. In our fragmented healthcare system, how can we start thinking globally? What impact do our actions hold for the planet and all its people? Dr. Jeffrey Charles Hardy is an author, thought leader, Founder and President of Care fo…
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Managing Burnout and Continuous Learning with Dr. Alejandro Gru In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, Dr. Alejandro Gru, an esteemed dermatopathologist and professor, discusses his strategies for managing burnout, including family support, travel, and exercise. He emphasizes the importance of continuous learning through interactions with trainees and c…
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Send us a text A conversation with Justin and Ashley K. George Resilience is a muscle. The challenges don’t get easier, we just get stronger at handling them. A couple who know this from experience are Justin and Ashley K. George. When their son Elliot was diagnosed with a heart defect, it took everything for them to stay strong amidst the crisis, …
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A Conversation with Dr. Phillip McKee: Balancing Passion, Work, and Wellness In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, I reconnect with Dr. Phillip McKee, a renowned dermatopathologist and author. We discuss Dr. McKee's career, his experiences with burnout, and the role his wife played in helping him manage his workload. Dr. McKee reflects on the challenge…
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Send us a text A conversation with Dr Ellana Stinson Money affects everything in American healthcare. And too often, it gets in the way. Taking the bull by the horns is Dr. Ellana Stinson. Having felt the frustration of cost-cutting on the frontline, she chose to do an MBA in finance - seeking to better understand how mysterious financial bodies - …
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, we continue our insightful conversation with Dr. Olayemi 'Yemi' Sokumbi, MD, a dermatologist and dermatopathologist at Mayo Clinic. Dr. Sokumbi discusses her struggles with the fear of failure, especially as an immigrant and a Black woman in a high-stakes profession. She highlights the concept of stereotype threat …
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, host Christine sits down with Dr. Olayemi 'Yemi' Sokumbi, a dermatologist and dermatopathologist at Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida. Dr. Sokumbi, also the Medical Director for Business Development, shares her personal journey towards finding joy and purpose beyond her career achievements. Through personal anec…
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, Dr. Dean Gianakos returns to discuss his role as Chief Academic Officer at Centra Health, his interest in medical humanities, and his journey with The Pharos journal. Dr. Gianakos shares an inspiring anecdote about the poet John Stone and reflects on themes of burnout and personal growth through the metaphor of whi…
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This episode of SEE HEAR FEEL presents a compilation from episodes 101 to 119, focusing on combating burnout in high-stress professions through emotional intelligence and practical lifestyle tips. It features insights from experts like Dr. Art Papier on physician burnout, Dr. Dean Gianakos on emotional intelligence in leadership, and Dr. Angelina H…
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Send us a text Welcome to our third installment of our Case Studies From The Heart series. In the episode, Dr. Fethke shines a light on the topic of immigrant healthcare, by sharing his own experience successfully treating a young child from Honduras with Turner’s syndrome. Immigrant healthcare can be a controversial and heavily politicized topic, …
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In this episode of SEE HEAR FEEL, Dr. Dean Gianakos, Chief Academic Officer at Centra Health, discusses the DiSC assessment, a tool used to evaluate leadership styles, and its role in enhancing emotional intelligence. He shares personal anecdotes about navigating different leadership styles and the importance of effective communication in building …
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Send us a text Is it time to revamp medical education? This week’s guest, Dr. Austin Chiang, certainly thinks so. Leading an already distinguished career, Dr. Chiang is a top gastroenterologist, Chief Medical Officer of the Endoscopy division of Medtronics, Founding President of the Association for Healthcare Social Media (AHSM), and the author of …
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= Therefore, let us rejoice! This is a poem by Dr. John Stone, and every time I read it, I am reminded of some of the essential parts of doctoring, both good and bad. It's graduation season (schools as well as training programs) - please share with your graduates, particularly those in healthcare. Dr. Benjamin Doolitle (who was on episode 97) share…
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What kind of life do you really want to be living? What kind of life has meaning for you? And if you have children, and even, like me, have ones thinkinga about college, what kind of life should they be thinking about? This was a true privilege to speak with William Deresiewicz and hear his thoughts on these questions. William Deresiewicz is an Ame…
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Send us a text 70% of U.S. adults have accessed health information online in the past year. A revealing statistic, highlighting the increasing reliance on digital resources for healthcare guidance. As this week’s guest, Susannah Fox, illuminates, patient-led healthcare holds tremendous potential for transforming our health systems. With her extensi…
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Dr. Art Papier believes we are focusing on the wrong questions in medicine, and for the best care of patients, we need augmented intelligence. Dr. Art Papier, MD is Chief Executive Officer and co-founder of VisualDx. He is a dermatologist, medical informatics expert, and Associate Professor of Dermatology and Medical Informatics at the University o…
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Send us a text This week's guest is in the business of maximizing outcomes. A self-described "reformed investment banker", Daniel Etra is the co-founder and CEO of Rethink, a data-driven company changing the face of neurodivergent care. He talks passionately about the vast social impact of their operations, teaching frontline clinicians, empowering…
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I didn't really know chemo brain is "real" until just recently. Dr. Todd Horowitz has done research on "chemo brain" - with the better term being "cancer-related cognitive impairments", or CRCI. CRCI is real, find out how it manifests, and what can help. (Spoiler alert: it is mental and physical exercise!) Todd Horowitz, PhD, is a prominent cogniti…
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Send us a text 64% of U.S. adults have had adverse childhood experiences. A stark statistic, and one that we are paying the cultural and economic cost of. As this week’s guest Julika von Stackelberg tells us, these experiences in our youth have a direct impact on our life expectancy and wellbeing in our lives. Through her work as a peaceful parenti…
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There is so much that we don't know in medicine, plus there is human error, and it would be great if AI could help. Dr. Todd Horowitz is an expert in attention and research on medical image perception. We talk about what you can see in a quick glance, how computer algorithms can fail, and how best to figure out how AI can help us. Dr. Todd Horowitz…
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I've always thought that (a) book(s) can change the world. Books have definitely changed me. Picture books are a format that I got more familiar with as an adult reading to my children, and as a genre, I think they are hugely important. Dr. Krista Aronson is a psychologist whose work bridges my interest in picture books with my attempts to more ful…
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Send us a text We have a problem with prescriptions. A major problem. We take a step back from our recent policy-focused guests, to welcome licensed pharmacist, host of Men's Health Unscripted podcast, and founder of Your Tampa Healthcare Advocate, Patrick Alonso. Patrick is on the front line with patients, and was empowered to change the tide of p…
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360 degree leadership evaluations are common in the corporate world. Really thinking about the meta-skills of leadership (and learning them) is not something that I typically do in my position as a dermatologist/dermatopathologist without a formal leadership role in. my academic department. Through this conversation with my sister, whose job is to …
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Dr. Duje Tadin studies visual perception, and his take on what we see is that it is messy. I enjoyed hearing his thoughts on System 1 and System 2 as they relate to what we see in different domains. Dr. Duje Tadin, PhD is a neuroscientist renowned for his groundbreaking research in the field of visual perception. He is currently Professor and Chair…
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Send us a text It’s time to get to grips with sepsis. The statistics are stark: sepsis is killing 250,000 people in our country every year - and yet we’re still only getting to grips with why it happens, how we can identify it, and how we ensure effective treatment. On a mission to better our understanding is Dr. Robert Scoggins, a leading figure i…
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I am still turning this over in my head, that Dr. Ricardo Nuila says the purpose of Arts and Humanities is...beauty. I have not thought of it in that way before, and he has really made me think about the role of beauty in my life, in my work, in small and big spaces of good and bad. I think this is a must listen! Dr. Ricardo Nuila, MD is an Associa…
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Send us a text “In the United States we don’t ration medicine, we ration people.” We are honored this week to welcome an esteemed author, pediatrician, educator and co-founder of the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, Dr. Don Berwick. Dr. Berwick has dedicated his career to reigniting our healthcare system, to ensure it can meet the needs of dis…
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Emily Dickinson was one of the first poets that I was introduced to when I was younger, and Dr. Ricardo Nuila refers to one of her lines, Tell the truth but tell it slant. We talk about this, about nuance and context, and how that relates to algorithmania. It comes back to metacognition, gestalt vs algorithmic thinking. Dr. Ricardo Nuila, MD is an …
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Send us a text We need to transition our industry from being about sickness, to being about wellness. Imagine a system that rewarded providers for keeping patients well; that reimbursed practices for patients with better metrics. That’s the type of system dreamt of by this week’s guest, Dr. Andrea J. Boudreaux, Executive Director of Children’s Scho…
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I love talking about metacognition, in hopes of improving how I think, how I diagnose, and how I learn. Dr. Smoller loves to teach and is interested in learning theory, and he has active research experience in learning/teaching visual recognition through pattern recognition, fast thinking. And yet, algorithmic thinking (slow thinking) is important,…
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Send us a text It’s time to talk about rural healthcare. Enter this week’s guest, Dr. David Schreiner, PhD, who is fresh off the press with his new book Be The Best Part of Their Day. As President and CEO of Katherine Shaw Bethea Hospital in Dixon, Illinois, David knows the intricacies of delivering healthcare in rural communities with compassion a…
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Three magic words to help conquer fear, that may also be a secret to having a long and productive career. I really enjoyed this conversation with Dr. Bruce Smoller, a giant in the field of dermatopathology and pathology. Also tune in next week for Part 2! Dr. Bruce Smoller MD trained in anatomic and clinical pathology at Harvard's Beth Israel Hospi…
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I am always curious about how others continually improve, and Dr. Thomas Brenn gives good insights on this. Learning in whatever way works for you, getting exposure to new things in ways that you can remember, discovering true mentorship...it's definitely a fun journey. Dr. Thomas Brenn MD PhD received both his doctorate degrees in Germany. He comp…
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Send us a text Use your voice. This is the key take-home message for physicians, medical students and residents, from Keshia Bradford. As Project Manager of Doctors for America, Keshia is on the frontline, witnessing the current state of our healthcare system in unflinching detail. In giving us a history of our healthcare and health insurance syste…
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I love to talk to people who are honest and confident in their honesty! Dr. Richard Carr is an internationally known expert in dermatopathology and pathology, and he speaks honestly about emotional intelligence as a muscle, recognizing our own weaknesses, and tailoring emotional intelligence to the individual. Being hypercritical can be a strength …
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Send us a text Knowledge is power. So how can we ensure our healthcare system is empowering patients? This episode is a brilliant chat with ‘e-Patient Dave’ deBronkart, a legendary advocate of participatory medicine who came into the spotlight during a battle with cancer in 2007. Dave is the living embodiment of participatory medicine, and reflects…
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Dr. Ron Stotts has been meditating for decades, and he shares some of the foundational building blocks of being able to transformatively lead. Learn about "big mind", "STOP", and how to breathe. We touch on emotional intelligence, self-compassion, other compassion, and more. Dr. Ron Stotts, PhD explores what is possible for individuals, organizatio…
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Dr. Mitesh Patel is a physician and behavioral scientist! He helped found the Penn Medicine Nudge Unit, a first for healthcare. We talk about behavioral nudges, both for healthcare and home life, and the small things that we can each do to nudge behavior. Dr. Mitesh Patel MD MBA is a physician executive and behavioral scientist. He is currently Chi…
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LOOK AGAIN! A world full of colors can become gray due to habituation. Waking ourselves up to truly see the amazing things around us, as well as the problems that should be fixed, takes dishabituation. This conversation focuses on habituation and dishabituation, how they are defined, and what we can do to get life to resparkle. Cass R. Sunstein is …
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