Why We Need Empathy w/ Chia-Lin Simmons & Fay Johnson

From Woke to Work: The Anti-Racist Journey

In this week’s episode Kamala zeros in on empathy because it is a critical stop on the journey to ensuring any plans we make to address racism going forward are grounded on an understanding of our shared humanity. Anti-Black racism is not a Black people problem, it is a White supremacy problem. Until non-Black, and especially White people, see the problem as theirs to solve, we can’t make progress. Where sympathy is to share in the sorrow of another, empathy is to feel the sorrow of another as if it were your own while being conscious of the fact that this is a thought experiment. You still know you have your own shoes that you walk in but you mentally or emotionally, envision what it would be like to walk in the shoes of another. It brings us closer to those who may be very different from us.

For this discussion, Kamala is joined by Fay Johnson, an ethical behavior change and human-centered design expert, and Chia-Lin Simmons, a successful tech serial entrepreneur. Fay founded Deliberate Discourse in 2015 in response to the ongoing violence against black people in America. Deliberate is an intentional, guided experience that allows people, and especially non-Black people, to engage in deep conversations about racism in America. Chia-Lin is the CEO / Co-Founder of LookyLoo and Co-Founder of Orange Bridge Ventures; most relevant to our discussion today is her personal journey as an outspoken advocate and ally for the Black community, in her professional and personal life.

Jump straight into:

(00:45) - A brief context around empathy and racism in the United States - “Anti-black racism is not a black people problem, it is a white supremacy problem.”

(04:56) - How everyone has the right (and obligation) to stand up against racial justice - “I remember feeling in my body that very visceral response that I needed to do something. A dear friend of mine, Stephanie, said: ‘You will for sure screw it up, but you should do it anyway because the work needs to be done. Just get going and stop questioning herself about being perfect.’”

(16:40) - The importance of empathy and why it is so crucial in the Anti-Racist Journey - “Having that kind of empathy and imagining being in those shoes has really allowed people to help do the bridge into having those conversations in the United States.”

(26:34) - How conscious conversations can fight polarization and what racism in the business ecosystem looks like - “People may not be aware of the number of walls and privileges that essentially are structured for white people and against people of color.”

(37:10) - How power and privilege prevent people from accessing empathy - “Maybe it's time for some of us to take a step back and put other people forward, because we need to hear their voices.”

(44:41) - How to cultivate empathy through “bridging” - “If we are really committed to being good leaders, a good skill to learn would be paying attention to the signals that you're getting from people when they do raise the topic.”

Resources

Deliberate Discourse

LookyLoo

Connect with Fay

Connect with Chia-Lin

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From Woke to Work is a show produced and hosted by Kamala Avila-Salmon in partnership with Julian Lewis and TJ Bonaventura at StudioPod. Edited at Nodalab, art by Tommy Gomez, and music produced by davecantrap.