Noshing With Charles Scribner III – November 16, 2023

Ira's Everything Bagel

Author, Scribners: Five Generations in Publishing

Ira’s Everything Bagel Podcast welcomes a fascinating guest this week – Charles Scribner III, author of “Scribners: Five Generations in Publishing.” This episode offers listeners a deep dive into the incredible legacy of one of America’s most prominent publishing families, Scribner’s Publishing House, and the influential role it has played in shaping literary history.

Charles Scribner III, a respected art historian and an influential figure in the literary world, shares an intimate look into the Scribner family’s five-generation-long journey in the world of books, literature, and publishing. Through personal anecdotes and historical insights, Charles reveals how the Scribner Book Company Publisher became a cornerstone of American literature. This episode not only explores the illustrious history of Charles Scribner’s Sons but also delves into how literary classics are born, nurtured, and preserved for future generations.

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Who is Charles Scribner III?

Charles Scribner III is no stranger to the world of art and literature. Having received his PhD in Art History from Princeton University in 1977, he is a distinguished scholar who has made significant contributions to the field of Baroque art. Beyond his academic pursuits, Charles joined his family’s legendary publishing house, Charles Scribner’s Sons, where he worked alongside his father and contributed to the Scribner Publishing House’s continued success through decades of change and evolution.

Over the years, Charles Scribner III has become a well-known commentator for various television documentaries on iconic authors such as Edith Wharton, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Ernest Hemingway. His involvement in these projects has solidified his reputation not only as a literary historian but also as an authority on the cultural and historical significance of literature. For more insights into his work and legacy, visit Charles Scribner Official Website.

The Inspiration Behind “Scribners: Five Generations in Publishing”

In this episode, Charles discusses the inspiration and motivation behind his latest book, “Scribners: Five Generations in Publishing.” While the book is not a comprehensive historical record, it serves as a memoir that captures the essence of the Scribner family’s unique impact on the literary world. Charles opens up about how he wrote the book in just one month, channeling his passion and dedication to telling the story of his family’s profound influence on Scribner’s Publishing House and the broader New York Scribner literary scene.

According to Charles, the heart of the book lies in exploring how the Scribner Publishing Company has shaped the lives of countless authors and readers. He also reflects on his father’s invaluable teachings and the profound relationship his father had with iconic authors like Ernest Hemingway. Through these personal and historical narratives, Charles paints a vivid picture of the Scribner’s Publisher legacy.

A Glimpse into the Scribner Legacy

Scribner’s Publishing has a rich history of curating and publishing literary classics. From its founding days to the modern era, the Scribner Book Company has been at the forefront of publishing some of the most influential works in American and world literature. In his conversation with Ira, Charles Scribner III discusses the publishing house’s journey through three major ownership changes – Macmillan, Maxwell, and Viacom – and how it navigated these shifts while maintaining its literary heritage.

He emphasizes the role of Maxwell Perkins, whom he regards as the greatest editor of the 20th century, in cultivating the careers of literary giants. Perkins’ editorial guidance helped authors like Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Thomas Wolfe bring their masterpieces to the world. Charles also talks about the future of books and how Scribner’s Sons Publishing is adapting to the ever-changing landscape of the publishing industry.

Charles Scribner’s Role in the Art World

In addition to his involvement with Scribner Publishing, Charles Scribner III is a renowned art historian. He has authored several books on Baroque art, including “The Triumph of the Eucharist: Tapestries by Rubens” (1982), “Rubens” (1989), “Bernini” (1991), “The Shadow of God” (2006), “Home by Another Route” (2016), and his latest, “Sacred Muse” (2023). His contributions to art history have seen him lecture at prestigious institutions such as the Metropolitan Museum of Art, National Gallery, Getty Museum, Frick Collection, and Morgan Library.

During the podcast, Charles recounts one of his favorite assignments – an undercover operation for U.S. Customs special agents in Miami Beach in 1991. This mission aimed to trap art thieves and recover a stolen Rubens oil sketch. His involvement in this thrilling case was later featured in the BBC/Bravo documentary “The Rubens Robbers.” Such stories highlight the multifaceted career of Charles Scribner III, seamlessly blending the worlds of art and literature.

The Impact of Scribner Publishing on Literary Culture

The Scribner Publishing House has long been associated with literary excellence. By publishing groundbreaking works and nurturing literary talent, Scribner’s Publisher has left an indelible mark on American literary culture. In the podcast, Charles emphasizes how books affect lives by providing readers with new perspectives, inspiration, and comfort. This commitment to the power of literature is a testament to the enduring legacy of Charles Scribner and Sons.

Charles also sheds light on the importance of preserving the family’s legacy and the company’s role in shaping literary history. The Scribner Publishing Company has remained true to its mission of bringing high-quality literature to the world, even as it adapted to the modern publishing industry’s challenges and changes. For anyone interested in learning more about this rich history, the Charles Scribner Official Website is a valuable resource.

A Look Towards the Future of Books

In this episode, Charles Scribner III shares his thoughts on the future of books and publishing. With the digital age changing how books are created, distributed, and consumed, Scribner’s Publishing continues to evolve while honoring its literary roots. Charles expresses hope for the continued importance of physical books and the timeless experience of reading. He believes that the fundamental relationship between authors, editors, and readers will endure, despite technological advances.

By tracing the history of Charles Scribner’s Sons and exploring its modern challenges, Charles provides listeners with a deeper understanding of how Scribner Publishing has managed to stay relevant and impactful in an ever-changing world. This episode is a must-listen for those interested in the intersection of literature, history, and publishing.

Charles Scribner III Podcast Epsiode Conclusion

This week’s episode of Ira’s Everything Bagel Podcast with Charles Scribner III offers a rare and insightful look into the legacy of the Scribner family and its impact on publishing. From the family’s history in the literary world to Charles’s personal experiences in the art and publishing industries, listeners are treated to a rich narrative that spans generations.

For anyone interested in the history of American literature, the evolution of Scribner’s Sons Publishing, or the inner workings of a publishing house, this episode provides a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. As Charles continues to share his passion for literature and art, the Scribner name remains synonymous with literary excellence.

To delve deeper into the world of Charles Scribner III, his work, and his family’s legacy, be sure to visit the Charles Scribner Official Website. This episode serves as a testament to the enduring power of books and the importance of preserving literary heritage for future generations.

🔗 Useful Links:

• Charles Scribner Official Website

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Charles Scribner III Podcast Epsiode Full Transcript

Ira Sternberg: Welcome to Ira’s Everything Bagel, where I talk with intriguing people about everything — their passions, pursuits, and points of view. My guest today is Charles Scribner III. He’s an art historian, author, editor, and lecturer based in New York. He specializes in Baroque art, music, religion, and literature, especially authors published by Charles Scribner’s Sons, founded in 1846. He’s the author of Scribners: Five Generations in Publishing, published by Lyons Press and available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and all the usual places. The book shares an entertaining look at the legendary publishing house that his family built, as well as its history. For everything about Charles Scribner III, go to charlesscribner.com, and you can follow him on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Charles, welcome to the show.

Charles Scribner III: Oh, thank you so much. It’s great to be here. This is all technology that’s a little new to me because I tell people I’m a boomer, not a Zoomer, but I’ll get used to it.

Ira: You’ll be fine. I had this image of you just writing with a quill, but that just may be my take on it because of the family history. I guess the logical question, and the obvious question, and I usually don’t like to ask obvious questions, but I will in this case, is why did you decide to write the book?

Charles: I love obvious questions. My father used to say to me, “Forgive me for being obvious, but the obvious is often overlooked.” That’s a wonderful question. The short answer is that my good friend and personal editor on the last four books, Michelle Rapkin, told me I should write it before going to Florida last winter. I was planning to do a walking tour of Rome with Caravaggio and Bernini to follow up on a recent book that she had edited on religious art and music called Sacred Muse. She said, “Well, Charlie, that’s a nice idea, but the book you really should write is the book about your family’s publishing history because if you don’t, those stories will disappear.” So, she gave me the marching orders.

I went down there, and I just had my wife and a puppy to take care of. I don’t play golf, I don’t play bridge, and I don’t like to sit in the sun. So, I wrote seven pages a day for 30 days in a row — one manic month — and that’s why the book is 210 pages, simple as that.

Ira: The second obvious question, which you like: how did you research it? Was it family archives, public information, libraries, or stories told by people who were around during certain periods of time?

Charles: Most of the research was already in my mind. I’ve been living it, working with my dad for so many years, and growing up hearing the stories from him. He did an oral history that was published as a memoir called In the Company of Writers. When he died in 1995, I mounted an exhibition at Princeton of the publishing company’s history from 1846 to 1996. The catalog for that had a timeline produced by a wonderful curator, John Delaney. So, when I sat down in Florida, I had in front of me talks I had given in years past and this marvelous timeline.

I couldn’t have written this book in so short a time without Google. I would be sitting at the laptop typing, and whenever a question came up — like, when did Trotsky write his memoir? Or who helped Mussolini write his? — I would stop writing and Google these questions. It was like writing in the Library of Congress at a fingertip. It was marvelous because it didn’t interrupt the writing; it was like taking a little knowledge break instead of a coffee break.

Ira: You were mentioning earlier that it’s not fashionable to teach art history or history in general on college campuses these days. Why do you think that is?

Charles: The idea of chronology seems to be out of favor. I don’t understand it because in every form of popular entertainment — movies, novels, TV miniseries — it’s all chronological. That’s how we live our lives, but somehow that notion of progression is out of favor in academia.

Ira: Did you feel any pressure given your family’s history and your last name to get the book right, to reflect the history of the publishing company accurately?

Charles: Yes, I really did. We’re living in an age of hype and factoids, a mixture of fiction and fact. The book is selective — it’s not a comprehensive history but more of a family memoir. I wanted the facts to be correct. At the end of the day, I would send sections to retired editors or people I’d worked with in the business and ask, “Did I get this right?” I wanted it to be fair and accurate.

Ira: I like how you were your own fact-checker by sending it to retired editors to make sure everything was accurate.

Charles: Yes, and they would make suggestions. It was a wonderful experience because it brought them back into my life. I’ve been out of Scribner’s for almost 20 years, and it was wonderful reconnecting with the alumni. The last sentence in the book is a quotation from Montaigne: “I have no more made my book than my book has made me.” The experience of writing it was an education in itself for me.

Ira: Did you find out things that you didn’t know or were surprised to learn while writing the book?

Charles: Yes, one of the sections of the book that’s particularly meaningful to me involves my father’s relationship with Hemingway. In 1960, Hemingway gave my father his handwritten last will to keep safe. My father said, “If I lose this, I’ll shoot myself,” to which Hemingway replied, “That wouldn’t do me any good.” It dawned on me while writing that Hemingway entrusted his will not to his lawyer but to his young publisher. My father never commented on it, but I realized the significance of it only when I put it on paper.

Ira: When the book was finished, did you send a copy to the people who helped to get feedback?

Charles: No, I sent chapters as I wrote them. I wasn’t going to impose on everybody. I did send it to my son, Charlie, who had some very good comments. He was a very good family editor.

Ira: Do you think your son carries on the Scribner tradition, or is he carving his own path?

Charles: He’s got quite a different life. He’s a conservationist and is in charge of one of the Riverkeepers in Alabama, part of the Waterkeeper Alliance, which was founded by Bobby Kennedy. It all came about because I signed up for Scribner’s to publish Bobby Kennedy’s book, The Riverkeepers, in the late ’90s.

Ira: How significant was Max Perkins in the history of Scribner’s?

Charles: Max Perkins was probably the most famous editor of the 20th century. He really encouraged and championed new talents like Hemingway, Fitzgerald, and Thomas Wolfe. He was more of a mentor than an editor to Hemingway. He was also very close to my grandfather. They were great friends and enjoyed lunch together almost every day.

Ira: You mentioned earlier some of the historical figures the Publishing House worked with, like Mussolini. Did you come across anything controversial, and how do you handle it?

Charles: Mussolini’s book was a ridiculous protestation. My father was not thrilled when I found it on the shelf. I did some research and discovered that Mussolini didn’t actually write it. It was ghostwritten by Luigi Barzini, who later became a renowned author. It’s part of history, and I included it as such.

Ira: Before I let you go, what is the future of books given technology and the level of education these days?

Charles: I think there will always be a place for books. The medium may change — it doesn’t have to be on paper; it could be on a screen. But words to be read silently will always have a place. My father worried about this in the ’60s with audiovisual aids entering classrooms, but books have endured.

Ira: That’s a great way to leave it. My guest has been Charles Scribner III. He’s the author of Scribners: Five Generations in Publishing, published by Lyons Press. For everything about Charles Scribner III, go to charlesscribner.com. Charles, thanks for being on the show.

Charles: Thank you. It was a real pleasure. I really enjoyed revisiting the history.

Ira: Same here. And join us every Thursday for a new schmear on Ira’s Everything Bagel.

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