How Dave Jackson reaches the world for less than what you spend at Starbucks
Manage episode 224715353 series 1167920
On this episode, Rob’s special guest is Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting.
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00:00:09 Welcome to the second season of new media lab. I m your host Robert Southgate, and it is great to be back. Lifer means world wind since post in the last episode of this podcast. It's hard to believe the last new media lab posted two and a half years ago, yet your we are right after launching the show, I started in MBA program in marketing Roosevelt university, which I just completed a couple of weeks ago as part of Miami. A I had the opportunity to an independent study which involved with the business side of podcasting. The thesis I had to prove was this podcast did not need to have a celebrity as a host to attract a large audience. It's a mixture of audience engagement consistency. And increasing visibility. The analytical process, I employed to prove my thesis was I enter viewed sixteen podcasters with audiences from fifty purpose owed to over three hundred thousand per episode. I asked everyone the same ten questions the answers. I got had a lot of similarities yet were all very different at the same time. The bottom line is I got a lot of incredible information out of each. And every interview I asked how they engaged with their audience their social media tactics, timing and consistency of show posting how they perceive gaining market share today compared to when they started podcasting. And what the host dude, which she high visibility we discussed best practices and what they perceive as the secret to their success.
00:01:44 It was an absolutely fascinating project the provided insights, well beyond what my thesis posited being a content marketer. I couldn't simply conduct all these interviews. Filter them down into a paper and turn it in for a great and just leave it at that. I recorded these interviews and planned to share them right here on new media lab. And don't worry. I was up front about this with all my guests. In fact, they were all enthusiastic willing participants so much so that they agreed to help with another little project, but more on that in a moment. This is a really difficult question. That's a great question. Good question. That is a great question. It's a really good question. I love this question. And I think this really is going to help me kind of meditate and grow on. It wanna hear the answers checkout season two of new media lab with Robert Southgate new episodes every Tuesday available on Spotify. I tunes Google hod casts, and wherever you subscribe to your favorite podcasts. The second part of this project is I've launched a patriot page for those who don't know patriots away for you to support the artists and. Content creators directly I've set up. The new media lab patriot page to help offset the cost of doing this podcast. I don't see patriotic as a tip jar. It's much more than that in order to provide value to the new media lab patrons I asked another question of each interviewee that I'm not sharing on the free version of the show. Only supporters will get the answers the question. How do you monetize?
00:03:22 Yeah. I know the question you get asked all the time. If you're a podcast or that you ask every podcast you run into the answers. I got back were incredible. You don't wanna miss out on these each week? I plan to post the answers to this question by the guest featured on the free show exclusively for the supporters on patriot. I also plan to post unedited versions of some of the interviews casually as well. For example, one interview was over two hours long, and Chuck full of ideas and information that simply I couldn't fit. It in the paper, I was writing. But that you will definitely want to hear my suggestion. Pause this podcast, go to patriot dot com slash new media lab and become a patron after you've done that come on back and listen to this episode. Also, if you wanna connect with the show, you can Email us at Southgate small business at gmaiLcom, you can find new media lab on Facebook by searching at new media lab show. You can follow me personally on Twitter at our Southgate or on Instagram at rob Southgate. Our networks website is Southgate media group dot com where you can find this as well. As over a hundred other podcasts, plus blogs, videos, Ben much more. Finely, follow our newest endeavor on Twitter at Indy podcast project and be sure to use the hashtag support. Indie podcasts when posting your own shows or sharing anything that's podcast related. Our first guest of season to his Dave Jackson.
00:04:55 You may know him from the school podcasting. If you don't pause this and go subscribe to that show right now, you can come back and pick up right where we are. Okay. Great. I'm really glad you came back. Dave is been podcasting since April of two thousand five in helped hundreds if not thousands of podcasters launch and improve their shows when we started our network Southgate media group, Dave was one of the first people we turn to he is full of excellent information and shares it freely. There are many reasons. Dave Jackson was inducted into the academy of podcasters all fame at the two thousand eighteen podcast movement. He is simply an icon. And I am thrilled that he joined me for this interview. So Dave describe your podcast, it's called the school of podcasting. Hopefully, that's obvious enough. And I help people plan launch and then grow if they want to monetize their podcast for this question. I know you do it a lot of different podcasts. I'm asking. When did you start podcasting? I wanted to win you started and win school podcasting started. I started in my very first one. That's a great question was in April of two thousand five I was doing a blog for musician. So I turned what would eventually become the marketing musician podcast. It's been under three different names because I could never find the right one. But that was back in April of two thousand five and I'm going to say six months after that came the school podcasting because I was losing my job. And it's hilarious. Because the the one thing I tell people to do do not get an podcasting for fast money, and I needed a job that had flexible hours because I was going to go back to school, and I needed something to keep me in my phone in my car, and and maybe some insurance in their possibly food. And so I said well.
00:06:51 This whole membership thing seems to be the big buzz, and this podcasting things to be the big buzz. I'm gonna put the two together. And maybe I'll make some money, which is why I was also doing ATar lessons. I was you name it. I was doing it to make money because the first couple years were painful in the monetization world. Are you? A celebrity depends on the room. I walking into I would say, no, I'm not a celebrity. But when I was just in DC this last weekend, and I had somebody brought over to me from somebody already knew that said somebody wanted to meet you, but they were afraid to come over. And I'm like in my head. I'm thinking, I'm the most I try to be the most approachable person on the planet. And when I was at social media marketing world, I was walking down the hall and had somebody look up and go. Oh, wow. And I turned around, and there's nobody else in the hallway, and I go are you allowing me? And she goes are you Dave Jackson, I go. Yeah. And. Like, she's like, oh my gosh. I was like so that is always kind of bizarre. And so based on that, I would say, yes, I'm a celebrity, except if I walk into a room at say podcast movement. I was in there this year, and there was a whole bunch of people from radio in other areas that my little bubble, and nobody had a clue I was so it kinda depends on the audience. But you know, that's we have to define I mean, the academy of podcasters hall of fame that makes it sound like, miss elaborately. But when I go to the grocery store, don't get any discounts. And I don't know people, you know, I don't have to run from the car to the grocery. So no, I don't think I miss elaborately. I think it just depends on what audience I'm standing in one. Ed, you would also then I assume say that V celebrity that you do have doesn't really affect downloads. No, not really I mean, it's what happens is in. This is what I'm always trying to do is plant seeds. When somebody goes, I'm thinking of starting a podcast who.
00:08:51 I listen to hopefully that answer is is Dave Jackson. I had a thing. There was a an event called the new the expo and the former head of the podcast track. Step down in the guy asked Lipson immediate hosting company. This is before I worked there the guy from blueberry. And the guy from speaker all three of them said, what do you think about Dave Jackson? And so that is what I'm always looking for. I want somebody to go. Yeah. To go. Check out. This Jackson guy. Do you think gaining audience today is the same as when you started? It's a little harder but not by much because it really is the same. You have to know who your audience is do you have to record a podcast that has the information that they want you then need to go to wherever they are make friends with them. That's the one everybody skips. And then tell them about your podcast, and then hopefully, your podcast one spire them to tell other people. But the thing that's different is back in two thousand five you could type in somebody's podcast. And you're pretty sure it was going to come up, and I get this more often. Now is when I type in my podcast. It doesn't come up. It's not an apple I tunes. And then if I type in my name, it does why is that? And there are some things in apple podcasts that don't make sense. Like if you like mice show is now called school of podcasting in the early days. It was called the school of podcasting because I figured out that if you have the word the in your name you then rank against.
00:10:25 Everybody else who has the word thaw in your show. So if you have things that you don't need like the word podcast or something like that get those out of there because the search results depending on what screener on typically only show. Maybe if you do the old show all which is kind of a misleading button. It should say show the top three hundred because that's really what you're getting. And so I've had people at one it was I think it was called the quick cast. And they spelled quick K W I K cast, and if you type in the quick cast it did not come up and I'm like, oh, come on. That's you know, that's they spell the name weird. That's got to come up. And it's because they had the word the in the name. They took the out if you just typed in quick cast, whom they came right up. So if you're in terms of that growing your audience that's a little rougher, but I've never relied on apple podcast to make me famous. I say apple podcast is a phone book. And it's a place to be found assuming their search results leads people to that. But it's really not gonna make you famous. I'm actually doing kinda double secret probation show right now that I haven't told anybody about but it's in apple podcasts. And I'm getting about ten downloads and episodes. So that's really what being an apple podcast is going to get you about ten downloads. And people think unfortunately, that all I have to do is get my podcast in there and money will fall from heaven, and I'll get ten thousand dollars. So that's the part. That's that's harder. I think in the past it was easier to be found when people search for you. There wasn't as much competition. But in the end when people find you the part that hasn't changed is you still have to be entertaining. You have to deliver value, and you have to inspire people to want to tell their friends about it. And that hasn't changed at all.
00:12:09 So what are three key things that you've done to grow your audience? The the big one is I do my best to shut up and listen. So if I go to I actually host a northeast, Ohio podcasters meet up, and the reason I do that and people like will. Yeah. But you have all these new people show up, and they're asking all these kind of podcasting one on one questions though, Mike exactly, and they're like, what do you mean? Exactly. It's been awhile since I've been in their shoes. So for me, I wanna see what they're struggling with. I want to see what they think. Because again, my goal is to give my audience what they want and what they need, especially. So I do things like that. So I always try to go where my audience is the the more time, I can tell you the eye color of my audience. That's the best because you're connecting on every level of communication. You've got body language. You've got tone of voice, you've got everything going on. And then from there get into things like Facebook groups and linked in groups if they're coming back keep hearing. You know, things like that. But it's it's still kind of networking, and then just the other thing I've done probably two to grow audiences. I don't turn down podcast interviews a lot of people like how many downloads do you have? And I'm like, I could care less. If somebody I if I have the time and somebody says, well, you come talk to me about podcasting. It's I've never said, no. Because you you never know I had if we go back the northeast Ohio podcasters meet up by six guys at a at a meeting and a lot of people like well that's complete waste of time.
00:13:41 Oh, except one of those guys worked at the local TV station. And when they needed a podcast GU ru he called me, and I got to go on TV show for that. So I never underestimate who's listening. It may be. Yes. When you have, you know, hundreds thousands of people, listen, you have a better chance of quote, someone important or somebody that can help you. But, you know, little little shows grow up to be big shows. And they remember when you came on four. Yeah. And if you don't ignore them after now, you're the big show. And if you don't ignore them, guess what they become your biggest cheerleader ever. Yeah. So I if it was a three things I to me, it's all about content promotion, so going out meeting people letting people know what you do and things like that. And what was the third one? You said, oh, and then going on other shows what three key social media practices that you do to build audience one. Again, the seems kind of backwards. I always promote if I'm on somebody else's show. So how does that help me because it builds a relationship with the person who was on the show and that person when somebody says, hey, I need to learn how to podcast might say. Hey, what do you think about that day Jackson guy? I like that guy. He actually promoted my show when he came on. So again, just trying to be nice to to everybody don't be afraid of Facebook live.
00:15:01 I did one today, and I fired up my phone. I stood by the window because I need a better lighting. And just explained what was going on in my head in the the fact that how goals are important because if you don't have one I felt kind of lost. And I get more comments on my Facebook stuff. I love the fact you just like talk to me on Facebook. It's just you riffing. And I'm like, yeah. So anytime you can connect with the audience. That's that's something. I didn't really expect. And the other thing I'm doing much better that I used to be horrible at is actually checking right now, I'm not I this is like blasphemy. So, you know, hang with me. I'm working on it. I'm almost not on Instagram. And I realize that I'm so old that actually say Instagram because I do realize now, it's the Graham, but okay, I didn't know that people that are younger. They're like, oh, man. I'm all over the Graham. And I'm like the grammar we're calling it the Graham now, oh man missing out. So I try to be everywhere. But I wasn't very good at being everywhere. And so like, I'm okay on Twitter. And I'm I. Spent a lot of time on Facebook. But I'm getting much better. At that. I have some tools now to keep me involved on Twitter because a lot of times I was getting lost over there. So I think that's the third one tried to if you're not going to be there don't set up an account because what's the point because then people go over and they go, oh, Dave on Instagram.
00:16:25 Oh, he's got four post one of them is, you know, his dinner from last night. That's not again, I I wanted deliver value and until I can figure out what I'm doing. But I was getting lessons. I I went to an event this past weekend and had somebody go you poor old white, man. Let me let me. How to do Instagram? So I'm getting there are you on Facebook Twitter. I mean, what are what are the those are the two that's really and the and the other one that I'm I'm ramping up because. Hello. It makes sense is linked in. Yeah. Because there are people. There are businesses now going we should start a podcast. And so I've I've met a couple people at conferences again that have said why are you not doing things on Lincoln, you that makes a lot of sense? So I started to play a little more on linked in. And I've I've got some plans, especially if not in December definitely in January. I'm to start doing video over there in a couple of things, and I've applied to be you can actually sell courses on Lincoln's applied for that. So that's that's going to be looking into. 'cause it makes more sense. I you know, podcasting often is used as a marketing tool. So why would I wanna go play on the, you know, marketing business platform where I did play for about a month on twitch, which was great. If a bunch of gaming.
00:17:40 Guys wanted to make a podcast. But I went over what this is cool. And if I want to sit there for ten years of Venturi, you know, if you depending on who you talk to which is going to be huge people are going to come over. It's not just going to be about gamers, and I'm like, I don't have time for that. And I realized I could make a huge I could be the one guy that they find. But I don't know that people looking for podcasters on twitch right now. So I just went to go spend some more time in Lincoln. So what is the secret of your podcast success from what I understand? Because for me. I just I go out. I find something that interests me. I kind of feel like I'm my target audience. But I also again because always trying to listen to the new people to see what they're getting struggled with or thriving struggles and things like that. But I have people tell me that without just making it all about me. I always try to weave in a story either something for my life or something I'm going through or something that affected me. And I try to be entertaining. And this this comes from a teacher in college. And I was taking extremely boring tech report writing class, and he would walk in and blow off the first fifteen minutes class and just make fun of people and just it was just a bunch of fun and cracking jokes. And then about that same time my niece at the time was I think all three and she had some sort of computer game on a CD. I think it was like Roger rabbit teaches reading or whatever. And I'm over. And I just keep hearing these screams and giggles, and she's just having a good old time. And I go in and like what do you do? And she's like I'm playing with Roger. And meanwhile, she's getting she's like spooky smart to this day. She still super spooky Martin, you know, if you can make education fund, people realize that they're actually learning stuff. So I always try to make it somewhat entertaining. I from an I think this is just me. Maybe that's it. I just I'm me. I don't try. I don't worry about my brand. I don't worry about.
00:19:40 About how I'm coming across. I'm just here to help you. And this is how I talk. So this is how I do it. And so over the years, I've had some really weird instances where used to show that was based on my faith called feeding my faith. Why played a clip for it. And all the eighth Theus this one I should say this one eight Theus came out and said, look, I want to hear about your invisible sky, buddy. And it wasn't even me talk. It was just a clip for another show too. Which then all the eighth is came out and said, no, Dave, you Yoon, your sky, buddy. You're great don't listen that guy. So there's this whole weird argument between my listeners, it was kind of different. And I just tried to every now, and then I'd always worry about this. Because when I try that's when it usually falls on my face. I will try to throw something specifically designed to make you laugh. Whether it's I remember I did a joke or a skit, I guess you could say on you know, how every. You know, there's a commercial for some sort of drug, and there's always side effects and people at the end, you know, call your doctor of this happens or this and that and and so I went through all these ones, you know, having a podcast can lead to making you have other podcasts and call your doctor. If your podcast lasts longer than four hours, and all these other things that were just trying to be cute and funny. So I was do that just because I want my audience to kind of expect every now and then something to be just a little weird. 'cause I think at times, I'm just a little weird. So I guess that's my success. I just I'm just me. And if you don't like me, I think I'm okay with that. And that's the other thing I think that that helps after a while just have to realize that not everybody's going to like you. And if you don't like me on my buddy Ray or Daniel or whoever. So what do you think the next big thing in podcasting is?
00:21:26 That is a great question. It's really hard to pick. Because as we record this. Now there, you know, we've had Spotify come on. We had Google podcast launch a new app and punt Pandora has just put their they're telling the water, and I'm not really expecting any of those to make a big deal because the the in-car dashboard that was supposed to be the big special people buy new cars that often and number two I had a Toyota Prius for a while it didn't have the index thing, but it didn't have bluetooth that. When I got in the car. Once I paired my phone with my car every time I got in. I just hit play. So I don't think having a play button on the dashboard is really gonna make that much of a difference because people that need that are, oh if I were to stereotype there, maybe somewhat older and not that familiar with how to sink Afon to a car in those people may not be listening to podcast. I'm not sure. So I'm really not sure what we need is more listeners. And I think I actually went to a picnic, and this is right after I got inducted into the hall of fame and my cousin was kind of poking fun at me. And she's like, oh, there's Mr. hall of fame. And I said, yeah. Yeah. Don't whatever. And she said, well, I'm gonna ask because nobody else is going to ask. And I go what she goes. What the heck I how do I what's a podcast? What what what's this whole thing? You're in. And I said you have phone and she goes.
00:22:54 Yeah. And I said, okay, go find this purple apper here. And so then my other cousin was like, hey, wait. Hold on. Let me get my phone. And so on the back porch taught five people how to consume podcast, and we need more of that. And I I really think that's going to be the big thing. I was kind of excited. I just saw one of my first holiday commercials, you know, with you know, sleigh bells ringing in the background of the whole nine yards. And I wish I could remember the name of the company, but they were saying how you can find guess for so and so and get these for grandpa. So he can listen to his podcast, and it was. Yeah. And it was a pair of headphones. And I was like, okay. They're saying podcast. Like everybody just knows what that is now. And because I'm old school away. I'm like, they're still people going a blood. Do I need to do I need to what to listen to that. So that I hear that more and more. You know, there's a show on TV right now called God friend in me, and the lead character is a podcast or who's doing? He's an atheist. His dad is a pastor is this whole weird thing. But again, they heeds costly recording podcast, and I'm like her at this is kind of cool that you just kind of going mainstream. So I wish I had an answer. That would say it's marked speakers, you know, the woman in the tube from Amazon and Serey and all these other things are I think they're all going to bring about three percent more people. And as things go up, it'll do it. But I wish I had the if I had the answer to you know, what's going to give me ten thousand downloads. I'd I'd be a millionaire. But I think it's going to be a comedy.
00:24:25 All of those. It was such a thrilled interview. Dave, I encourage you all to seek out his podcast and follow him across social media. There's a lot more to this interview. But like, I stated earlier I'm sharing the answers to the questions from my thesis on this show as with every interview, I try to leave with three key takeaways. The three that stood out to me from Dave our number one shot up. Listen, number two guest on any show that that'll have you number three make it fun and be yourself. What are your takeaways? What did Dave say that affected your business contemplation going forward? Share your thoughts on the Facebook thread for this episode. I would love to hear your insights. You can find Dave at David Jackson dot org or school of podcast dot com. Vines show on your favorite podcast app. Be at I tunes Google podcast, Stitcher, tune in or Android, be sure to subscribe and give him a. Great review believe it or not those reviews even help a hall of Famer Dave Jackson while you're at it play. Subscribe to new media lab with Robert Southgate wherever you listen to podcasts. You can Email the show at Southgate small business at g mail dot com. Do media lab is on Facebook search at new media land, our networks website is Southgate media group dot com where you can find this as well as over a hundred other podcasts, plus blogs, videos information about our live events, and so much if you wanna follow me personally, I'm on Twitter at our Southgate or on Instagram at rob Southie. Support this show and get awesome extra content by becoming a patron go to patriot dot com slash new media lab and choose your ear, please rate and review this show on whatever service. You subscribe to podcasts on it really helps others find the shop and tells me if you like what I'm doing here, you can find new media lab on items goo.
00:26:27 Podcasts Stitcher Spotify tune in radio and hopefully anywhere else that distributes podcasts. If you can't find us, let me know. And I'll rectify the situation all this. Plus more lanes will be in the show notes and on our website. So don't worry if you didn't have a pen to write it all down and thanks again today. Jackson for helping me with my thesis. Prevent such a fantastic guest. That's it for this week everyone. The next episode will drop next Tuesday until then get out there and create something.