Francis AKA W/U - Art is in the Eyes - Noise of the Broke Boys Episode 019
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Noise of the Broke Boys Episode 019
Francis AKA W/U talks about his new album Acuestate and shares his insights into art culture and creativity.
The album, Acuestate is used as a backing track to this entire podcast. Peep the full album on Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/1w_u/sets/acuestate
Follow @
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Listen to the Audio on all Podcast platforms.
All The Links Here: https://linktr.ee/NoiseOfTheBrokeBoys
A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.
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[Music]
this episode of noise of the broke boys
is brought to you by
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and now onto the show
[Music]
in this episode i talk with an amazing
artist
this guy always does a great job with
every project he puts together
not only is he a dope dancer but a
talented music producer as well
he recently released a new album titled
aquastade
that i included as a backing track to
this show
i encourage you to listen to the album
in its entirety outside of the show
as it is a tremendous feat of musical
brilliance
links to the album are included in the
description
please enjoy the episode with my friend
francis aka
with you of the fourth world
[Music]
welcome back everybody to another hour
of flaming
pollution i am your host kurt the hurt
and i have a special guest today he is a
true artist in every sense of the word
mr francis aka with you
of fourth world how you doing man i'm
good man thanks for having me
yeah dude i've been wanting to get you
on for like so long
um because obviously this is like an art
podcast and i feel like you are one of
my friends that
really embodies that word of being an
artist
it's like it's like everything you do it
seems like it's a
work of art almost you know what i mean
thanks man
what do you think about that i think
i'm lucky i feel really lucky i mean
yeah i'm so lucky i don't know what life
would be like without that you know
it would be a lot uh less meaningful
yeah i think art yeah it really is like
a meaningful thing it's like when you're
putting a lot of
effort into something and and really uh
i guess throwing throwing a piece of you
into everything you do and i see that
that's what you do and that's why
i really enjoy like all the work you do
which obviously is like music and dance
and
other things like that so um yeah uh so
another reason why i got you on here is
because
you just released a new album um which
hopefully i can pronounce this right
acoustade is that right
yeah it's not too bad yeah it's uh which
means uh
to like lie down it's like if you're
telling someone to lie down but
the way that i understand it um is like
you know lie down like rest
you know go to sleep you know hmm yeah
is there what was the meaning behind
that
yeah that was something where it's like
um growing up
it's something that i would just hear a
lot from like usually my grandma or my
mom like
to be like go to sleep oh you're
stressed or you're
whatever you're going through whatever
you like lie down like take a nap
asleep you know like it'll be you know
i don't know i thought of it as like
synonymous with like you know if you
if you go to sleep right now maybe you
know uh things will be better tomorrow
or like
help with your stress you know with
coping and stuff yeah
yeah kind of like you know it it'll tone
your emotion down a little bit
definitely like in the moment you're
like i want to get angry or whatever
get get really sad or something but
sometimes you just need to kind of like
chill a little bit and let let it brew
in your mind and you
you know kind of yeah you're all amped
up or you know you're going to feel some
type of way in the moment but yeah
i guess that's a pretty appropriate uh
title for an album that is like well you
kind of have everything in there like
kind of like emotionally
it's it's it you got see
when when i first read it aqua stadi i
was like oh this must mean
major bops and jams and bangers because
that's what
i'm hearing in this album
but obviously uh it has another meaning
but
um but yeah uh
it seems like an appropriate title for
an album because it's kind of like
that's what you're doing when you're
listening to music is you're kind of
chilling out and like
taking soaking in the moment soaking in
the mood soaking in the sounds
and yeah tight um yeah exactly
yeah exactly like you're able to um
like get into a place where you're like
comfortable enough and like open enough
to
to let that kind of steer you know
because so much of the day right we're
like
i feel like we're especially like in our
society we're kind of like
we tend to be like or like what's
incentivized is like being goal oriented
and being like
these like poor things on your list and
like knocking them out but
to be in a space where you can uh let go
of that for a little bit and let
you know another part of your senses
take you somewhere
that's like yeah i think that's what's
cool about it
um and that's what i hope that like
people could get into a place
of so that you know they could maybe
yeah hopefully get like just transported
to some cool places that
like don't even exist you know like in
the world you know but you can
you're creating you know like creating
your mind to get yeah
that's tight yeah i know yeah yeah yeah
so i know we're going to talk about this
later but
you're a med a med school student and
um i imagine that there's a lot of
pressure in your life
a lot and it seems like that probably
really influences your music
would you say yeah that's true oh
definitely yeah yeah so much
so much pressure like yeah i don't even
have the words for it yeah definitely
and like yeah that's like a
you know obviously like pain and all you
know all the different emotions that we
can experience like can you know have
the things that come with that but i
think also like if you're
if you're even just trying to show up to
to try to make something or try to
just do something like creative like
you're always gonna it's always gonna be
fulfilling you know even if you don't
have something to show for it you know
and so yeah
yeah definitely no shortage of pressure
yeah definitely
yeah yeah so i wanted to ask you
the inspiration for the album was there
anything like particular behind it i
mean it definitely seems like you got
uh particularly in the first track it
seems like there's a lot of kind of like
sound recordings and i it's
i forget which song it was but one of
them had it almost sounded like you
recorded from
like maybe one of like a procedure
so i don't know it was like kind of an
interesting thing it was a little hard
to hear but i was like oh there's
something
into the into this so i could really
sense that there was maybe something
like behind everything
yeah yeah there were i mean there
are so many things like i i don't know i
think like
when i even start i think like i like
first off i like um
like you know how video games are stuff
or like different shit like there would
be like easter eggs or movies too right
like yeah
i like the hardcore fans would be like
oh shit you know like that's a reference
to whatever
like oh my god it's mad funny yeah and
so like i
i love doing that and i would like sort
of like
put these little like audio snippets or
things like that that are easter eggs
from my life but also i think things
that um
you know other people might relate to or
have
so like for example like i said i don't
know if you heard of the anime like
demon slayer
but like like some shit you know i don't
know just stuff like that everywhere but
yeah but the um
yeah a lot of audio snippets that are
like personal to me so it's like
it's almost like um i don't have the
words to
like like eloquently like express
everything that i'm feeling but then
like
i'm using all these different like
snippets from like you know whether it's
like a pathology professor talking about
the spleen or if it's like
um you know if it's like somebody
talking about
uh having trouble sleeping or anxiety or
like depression or
or like you know like just you know
all these sounds that are just trying to
convey like the things that i'm trying
to work through
but also like yeah and tell the story in
that way and i think um
yeah and then the i think to answer your
question i think
the way i thought about it uh in terms
of the album is like how you know some
there are a lot of different ways uh
that people make an album or
think about an album but one that i
learned about was like
literally like a more like a
chronological story kind of flow and i
thought that that was a good idea
um very good way to like approach it and
so like
it's literally the album starts with you
know my mom
like telling me to go to sleep and then
and then each song is sort of like
getting deeper and deeper into like you
know the stages of like sleep or
whatever
yeah where yeah and so um to the point
where you are dreaming and that's why
like you're at a place where you can you
can go to all these different places
that don't seem connected but they are
in a way
interesting your brain right it's your
dream it's your it's your um
it's your vision it's your thoughts
right it's like right you're like you
know um
some people say that uh you know when
you sleep you know like
changing or each time you think about a
memory it's constantly changing like a
book on a shelf you know
yeah yeah you get all these crazy
combinations and permutations and shit
so
each song is kind of like that you know
it's just a different permutation a
different like
dream and it's a and yeah and then
that's why the last song is sunrise
because it's literally like
the sun is coming up and you just had
this night of crazy ass dreams yeah
and things you're thinking about and
then you wake up and that's the end of
it you know
that's really tight now that you explain
that i really
see it in in the out or hear it in the
album that's that's really tight
dude yeah i i could tell that there was
something behind it all because i was
like oh dude there's just like
it has this it has just some yeah maybe
it's just the easter eggs i was hearing
in it but i was like oh man there's
definitely something going on with this
that
that i don't quite understand yet so
yeah
i've listened to it probably about like
three or four times now so i'm gonna
have to listen to it again with this in
mind and like
and then thanks man i'll try to try to
see if i can
see and get anything deeper into that um
yeah
and so you going back to like what you
said earlier
uh you said your mother was the one that
you took the snippet from in the
beginning
oh yeah she literally just says like um
like she's like go to sleep you know my
son go to sleep
yeah for some reason i was thinking that
was your grandma because you had you
i know that you've like put a lot of
audio clips from her before
yeah so um she before she passed away
she was
living in wisconsin and um we had a
family friend who
she was a she was a music teacher and so
she had all these songs like memorized
on the piano
and we had a family friend that like
helped her record some of those songs
and they were thankfully like i had like
uh they were burned on a cd and i like
was able like save all the songs on my
computer so yeah i
yeah it was just like a fun challenge
you know like trying to like sample my
grandma it's almost like you're
collaborating with your
grandparent you know yeah and and so
yeah she
there she is in the first um the first
track the
um yeah the very first track after the
introduction so okay
yeah yeah and she was in she's been in i
think every project i made
in some way dope yeah no that that's
that's really
uh i don't know touching i guess that
you kind of have a piece of like your
history in all these songs and it's some
it's obviously
it's obviously she's obviously a person
who's had a huge influence on you and
and your music and
and putting a little piece of that is
like is really a touching thing
i don't know yeah um it makes it more
gratifying like
yeah it's like because i mean like maybe
i'm getting too meta or whatever right
now but it's like ultimately it's like
we do all this stuff and then and then
you know begs the question like what for
like why you know why are we doing all
this stuff
what is it all for what's the purpose of
it you know and like um
you know the answer to that and
obviously you know you get a thousand
different answers from everybody but for
me like i think
i think um yeah being able to make it
personal being able to just
i don't know it's another way of like
sifting through like my feelings or my
experiences and so that's helpful for me
so you know for somebody else maybe it
is too but and if it is that's great you
know i think
it could be helpful to people so yeah
yeah so
is that is that one of the main goals
that you have in in
like your music or i guess in any of
your art is to to have some kind of like
feeling or have some sort of yeah
reaction when
when someone is like viewing it or
listening to it
yeah i mean i would just hope that it
could
it could resonate it could connect in
some way like i don't really know how
how what that would look like or
whatever but you know um
but once in a while you know i get a
message from someone and they'll say
something like that and
and it's always interesting to hear what
they say or what that what they picked
out or what they
you know they felt but i think yeah i
mean
if if like a bunch of if right if this
just random like crap load of sounds
that have just been mashed together can
make somebody
feel something or rethink through a
situation or like
move past something you know difficult
or whatever it is you know or maybe get
them interested in like oh
and be like i've never heard of this
sound like where is this from
you know stimulating curiosity or like
um these things that like i think for me
like in my transition adulthood
sometimes i'm like
holding like i'm holding on for dear
life you know curiosity about the world
or like
being in awe about like a you know the
moon or something you know
like if you can like stifle or not
stifle if you can
um give that to somebody if you can like
reignite like a passion or something
that they had forgotten about that they
used to really love
i mean and just get someone excited
about something too i think like that's
you know that's always great you know
like so that's really the biggest thing
i think
and then just obviously you know making
people want to you know dance or like
just feel funky you know like feel feel
their soul you know however that
you know i mean just be like what out of
body yeah oh yeah yeah
no it kind of like it it it
captures their soul for a second yeah
it's it's yeah it's really interesting
how music does that because it
like you said it is just a like a random
assortment of sounds and noises but
for some reason when it's put in this
you know
melodic pattern we go oh man i this
ignites a mood in me and now you know
all this emotion kind of sparks up and
now
you know i don't know i've
it's it's such an interesting phenomenon
and i've been trying to learn a little
bit more about why that happens but
it's i don't know it's something that i
don't know if it's well studied actually
in
like you know in science or what but
it's such a cool thing going on
yeah i mean i've i've definitely nerded
out on some of that stuff and there is a
whole like discipline of like
um what is it like look at what it's
called like bio psych
uh i don't remember i remember there was
just this 10 minute video of this
techno dude probably from berlin he was
like nah i'm not even going to try to
impersonate him because that would be
bad luck right now but talking about
he's just talking about like um
the way that he was processing the drums
and what like how the brain interprets
it and then and then obviously
like just like uh i don't know if the
science has changed on this but like
at one time there was a there's this uh
idea that like the memory centers in the
brain are close to where the
a lot of the auditory processing centers
are too the same
it's like a smell too you know the same
way that like you know you smell
like i don't know um i don't know what's
your favorite food um
kurt well you know what i think what
you're saying is like when you smell
something
and it just yeah it's a memory like uh
for me yeah
it would be um it would probably be the
way that my
grandma used to cook her turkey for
thanksgiving like when i smell that i'm
always like
oh my god it like takes me back to that
moment or like a lot of the stuff she
used
to cook like a lot of old like german
dishes and stuff but
like when i smell that it's like i don't
it doesn't eat the food doesn't even
need to be in front of me but i'll smell
it and go like
i'll remember being like 10 years old
and eating that or whatever so it's it's
a really cool phenomenon too yeah no
that's the best yeah so you're saying
it's similar to like uh
for um sound as well because it's close
i think so
yeah i think so i mean yeah that's my
understanding at least right now
unless it's changed but yeah yeah no
that that's really cool i didn't know
that but
man i mean that would explain it i guess
i don't know i mean i'm no biologist
so what the heck do i know yeah me
neither me neither i'm
yeah like confused and lost most of the
time but i know a little bit
well you're you're definitely on a
higher level of
understanding that kind of thing than i
am for sure man
i i yeah i i definitely
can't do what you do bro so i i give it
up to you by that i'm just checking this
timer thing okay we're good
so we got nine minutes yeah no problem
um uh
so going back to um your grandmother uh
well actually i wanted to talk about the
the
um your alias with you which we were
talking before
we started recording um and i thought it
was a really interesting
um uh i guess insight on into it because
i always when i first read it i was like
oh it's like woohoo like a mario wuhu or
something
and then yeah you were telling me about
how your grandmother has like a high
influence in your music and i was like
oh it must be
with you as in like with your grandma
you're playing music with your grandma
and you said that it's not
quite that but it you know it's a you ha
you almost have a different
interpretation of it so
yeah but it like you know yeah like we
were talking about this earlier and like
i mean it
it's not literally that but it also kind
of is in the sense that like
um i i mean first off i'm really bad at
coming up with names but
i just chose that because i it just
i thought about like how personal uh
music is to me and how like it's
and just for all of us you know like
we're we're we're walking like you know
libraries of like sounds and collections
of sounds and
songs that we grew up listening to that
we heard in our in our homes with our
families um with our what our friends
used to bump whenever we
did whatever you know sports or
activities that we enjoyed growing up so
it's like we're just like this walking
like compilation album pretty much
and so you know everybody probably i'd
wager like has something that they
you know was usually stuck in their head
or you know songs that they remember and
so it's like for me
um that name that i chose is just like
these are the songs
these are the sounds that i hear in my
head this is like a soundtrack that
um it's like constantly evolving in my
brain but like
i guess for the last you know year and a
half these these this is like all this
stuff that was like
you know marinating in my head and like
boom splat on the you know
on the mp3 uh you know listen to that
you know
but basically yeah but also like on a
more serious note it's just like that
um like that intimacy that like
um that intimate relationship that i
have with music and like um
and speaking to like how important it is
to me and how um
i know i know that for other people it
can it can mean that too and maybe even
more
and so yeah just really trying to get at
that
that intimacy and like that personal
relationship that we all have with sound
but also like i think we were talking
about earlier how like it
it's it's only you know it's just like a
shorthand you know it's like w
and so it's like i mean you know when i
talk about it usually
i'll say it's like with you but really
it could be whatever it needs to be for
a person
in that given moment you know and just
like how music has
different things that it can do for
people in a given moment too it can be
entertainment right
you don't have to think about the
lyrical content if it feels good you
know it feels good
or if you want to right you can curl up
with a book and like read you know like
malcolm gladwell i don't know why he
came in my brain right now you know him
and listen to you know your harry potter
soundtrack you know it can be
what it needs to be for the moment and
that's why i also love about it so much
and and and that's why what it what it
sounds like and what it feels like can
can be so many things too so yeah
art is like a deeply personal thing but
you're you're sharing it with other
people
so it's like you're giving them kind of
a glimpse into like the
the craziness that's going on in your
mind almost right
yeah yeah it it and
definitely people will interpret it
differently and it
some it it grows from like what this
this small
p thing that you made into
having so much more meaning just to
everybody and that's i think a really
interesting part of art yeah
i mean i'm trying to remember this
example but i can't remember which
artist it was but
basically there was someone who you know
all these people had been
analyzing this guy's artwork and they're
like oh it means all this and this and
this and then like someone
uh i think interviewed him and he's like
oh yeah i just like the color and
uh i really wanted to paint like a
picture you know like
my mom or something and so it was like
that and
but like to him it was just
that but it
somehow his feelings towards his mother
got put onto the
you know the painting or whatever and
everybody yeah um
got something from that got a glimpse
into his life basically in the way that
he did that which i think is really cool
because
yeah obviously he's going oh yeah it was
just this and that but
it's it is more than that because he
does have this feeling towards his
mother and he put that onto the artwork
right and then people
were able to spot that in the art and
take something
from that that was maybe deeper than he
intended but
the intent was almost uh subconscious i
guess is maybe
yeah the best way which is cool yeah
yeah maybe and maybe all those people
helped him realize that you know even if
he wasn't aware in that moment
oh yeah yeah that's a good point yeah i
mean yeah
you you are the artist but also
some of the most artistic qualities of
it isn't so apparent and
other people have brought it to your
forefront
yeah yeah so true the the
i remember like i forgot what what uh
artist this was or something but i
remember
um more like abstract modern art you
know like uh i guess
you know the like when people kind of
generalize like modern art is like you
know like a circle and like a square and
then like a spider
and then there was like this um like
museum curator or something like that in
the video she was like
oh you know like the two circles
in the painting you know they sort of
remind me of the stratification of the
caste system and the society
and the different individual i mean and
then he was like
yeah yeah i like circles man
yeah he's like circles are good
that's tight yeah but i love that but i
love
it i i think that's great you know like
if i can i
i mean it's definitely like a meme to uh
to do i guess for people to do that but
i do think that there's some value to
like over analyzing a piece of art that
was just so simple you know
because you're you're definitely putting
some like a personal like um
a personal connection into that thing
that you know obviously
you're you know you have some yeah you
have some kind of connection to it and
you're adding more to it
you know whether that was the intent of
them or not i think that there's there's
some inherent value in that and um yeah
i mean because you're still i mean i
mean like
i obviously there's free will and art in
the decisions and the choices that we
make
when we're making stuff but it's also
like that's still on some
level informed by like our life you know
mm-hmm
i think about maybe i might not be
thinking why i like that
you know that i chose or something yeah
but the reason you know i'm like oh yeah
or that you know you know it sounds like
the color pink to me for some reason
so i like i think so let me throw that
down let me slap that on there
[Laughter]
um so uh
moving on to this next topic um
you're you've been a dancer for a long
time a b-boy
um what what do you find
is the like relationship between like
music
and dance music production and dance
um and um i think
so many things i don't know i think like
obviously as
i mean in the most literal sense like as
dancers we have a little bit more
perspective on like the stuff that makes
us want to you know go
off you know but now you're creating the
the thing that makes you go off i like
you have control of that too
so yeah you have a gauge you know you
have a natural gauge of what your butt
is doing you know so it's like the more
heat you're
just like you know you're like
there it is dude you know first torch
and then you know that's your like you
know little meter you know like oh yo
limit break you know let it break that's
what's up
like i can drop this right you know but
yeah
but yeah but yeah but it no but in all
seriousness yeah like definitely you
i think like that's a gift because you
have more insight on like
i don't know what you like to hear and
what you think other people might enjoy
like dancing to and stuff
in any genre but um
what else i don't know i think like just
just yeah i don't know just playing with
different rhythms obviously you've heard
a lot of different dance music so that's
gonna
have an impact on like things that you
want to explore things that maybe
um you think would be fun to incorporate
maybe that you've never heard before
you know you might like style like
popping music but then you're like oh
what would that sound like with like
bossa nova or something oh
interesting yeah you know like that you
know again like you
can create like new creating new grooves
or like new um
new stuff like that and then and then
it's kind of like a feedback loop right
like
you can create something like that and
then maybe that can help a dance evolve
or like a person's style evolve too so
it's kind of like you're giving
more people to play more thing more like
a sonic palette to play with
they can evolve too and i'm sure they
all kind of like feed into each other
but yeah do you ever like make a track
and then you're like oh this is a banger
and then you just play it and start
dancing to it
and then uh and then um
like and then start like creating some
new move or something
yeah oh yeah for sure yeah i've just
been like
go roll on the floor and then like i'm
like yo yeah yeah
that's happened before and i think
that's like that's part of it too you
know your question it's like i think
it's
it's like um at least for me my thoughts
on dancing or like you know it should be
i mean you should try to try to at least
understand and appreciate whatever that
foundation is and then like
so honor that and then try to you know
you know uh
do that incorporate that into your your
dance and stuff but it should also be
like
you know um unapologetically like you
yourself and it always fun at the end of
the day you know so it's like if it's
not
if you're if you're making you know a
dance music or whatever and it's not
feeling fun and it's not feeling real to
you then it's like for me i don't
see as much of a point to it but for me
you know like i think it should just be
fun spontaneous um
you know ideally not sounding like you
know like mixed well and like not
sounding bad but
yeah but aside from that as long as it's
fun it's
it's just you doing your thing and um
that's kind of where you're at with
um trying to make dance music then
that's okay you know
it's more it's more for the people than
for yourself anyway yeah yeah and some
yeah you mentioned um foundation and um
what i guess like what is uh what is
your
how do i say this like what is like what
are your
thoughts on foundation and i guess how
do you reconcile that with um
um i guess like being
what you were saying earlier is
unapologetically yourself yeah
i think like i don't know maybe i mean i
guess we could talk about it within like
breaking right like yeah and breaking
yeah
yeah like i mean
there's so much merits to learning a
chair for use right or just like how
that
the concept of what a freeze even is
because if i don't know
if i don't if i'm not aware of that um
then i mean i mean there's nothing wrong
like just freely like you know
like just like and stuff but
um i don't know i think there's just so
much so much value in like understanding
like what are the cornerstones of like
of this dance you know like uh what are
the things that make breaking breaking
like
footwork you know like you know
you know like and having that
understanding and at least
you know again within like the realm of
like what your body can actually do like
trying to learn that um and then
from there i'm sure like through the
process of learning that you're always
finding yourself and you're always
you're always um you know you you know
you try to learn like a step or a
pattern and you accidentally
slip this way and then you know that
turns into something that is you that is
unapologetically you because it's part
of your like journey you know trying to
learn
foundation or whatever
and then like yeah and it just helps you
to bet like if you have a
if you have that understanding of the
foundation then it helps you to
be your self unapologetically more
because
then you have that platform to stand
like firmly on and it's the same thing
uh it's the same thing with music it's
the same thing with like um
like what i was telling you about the
the medicine stuff like when you have to
present a patient you know it's
you have your foundation and like you're
you're gonna throw you around now
because
and you can you there's more wiggle room
for you to be yourself because you
honored
what that foundation is and you made
sure to know that well
and so now it's like you know now you
have like
a clear way to tell your story you know
like you can um
you can you know like you can you can
cook this omelette for somebody and give
it to them
and you can put bell peppers in it but
the the thing that they'll notice is
that the
bell peppers because it's like it
clearly tastes like an omelette right
versus like i don't know
you didn't know how to make an omelette
and then people would just be like
yeah and then they wouldn't notice your
bell pepper
yeah so the same type of thing i think
yeah no
uh i've always thought about um like
foundation kind of like as
it's i almost think that every person
has their own
foundation in a way i mean there's
there's definitely
like i kind of separate the word
foundation and
like textbook moves you know because
there's obviously yeah yeah
there's obviously textbook moves in in
breaking which you know
we can talk about all that you know six
step windmill
flare whatever head spin like those are
obviously textbook moves but
i've always been like
foundation is kind of something a little
bit more because it is deeply personal
because i definitely
think that everybody to be a good
b-boy or b-girl has to really understand
their body
and what the capabilities of it are
um and then you take those textbook
moves and
you and and use it and
have your body like perform those and
that becomes
your your actual foundation in that
sense
and so long story short i
i've always thought of foundation as
more of like
a control of your body kind of thing
rather than a actual
move kind of thing and and i think that
that's how i really reconcile
being unapologetically yourself with
the foundation um yeah i don't know it's
a big
interesting concept that i've always
liked thought about so no
i love that no i think i definitely
think of it in the same vein i think
also like foundation as being
just knowledge acknowledge the history
of the dance
knowledge of the culture and then like
and then yeah and then
knowledge in recognizing exactly what
you're saying you know like that i mean
like i think that's part of what makes
breaking so special you know that like
it has a foundation and like yeah we're
talking we're really talking about like
all the different
ways that that foundation manifests but
like
originality um
very much stems from that like that
foundation of yourself and understanding
how to
move the things that you can and that
you can't do
and um and honoring that and just
um yeah using that to create your own
yeah your own sort of foundation so
yeah i mean cool yeah i love that
i mean i really this was a long time ago
when i really started thinking about
this because
you know when i was like a young b-boy
everyone was like you gotta have
foundation you gotta have foundation
but then also it was like sure you also
got to be original you can't
bite and i was like dude they those two
things almost seem
different like right but
and so it never made sense in my mind uh
you know as a young b-boy
because it almost seems like they're
they're they're
you know counterintuitive they're
counter to each other right
um yeah and so i kept trying to
reconcile that right
and i i think i finally realized that
originality really
is foundation to breaking
and yeah relationship between
your relationship between originality
and those textbook moves
is your foundation and i think that's
probably the best way i've like really
understood that now and so i love that i
love that
yeah i think that's something that
especially breaking
just makes that possible it makes that a
possibility like in that in that way you
know
it seems like it i don't know from my
understanding but yeah i love that
yeah yeah make sense um
so one of the
interesting things i mean obviously
anyone who's seen you break
um has seen like you have this really
unique style
and um i mean i i think it's
it's definitely because of the way you
you approach dance but i also
um i know that you've you have like some
hip
kind of like thing and i'm i'm curious
like how that
how you think that that has like really
influenced your style
yeah so i didn't know i wasn't aware of
it but i
had like um like hip hip dysplasia or
like hip misalignment
um i don't know at what point it
happened but
i remember like experiencing it as early
as like 17 years old
like playing soccer and like feeling my
hip click but
caught up with you know the next thing
like whether that was i gotta pass these
classes or i gotta do this or do that
and so
um yeah by that so then like seven years
past
it um was it i don't know some time
passed i tore my acl in a battle
i used to love doing flips yeah my acl
exploded i was doing like uh
like an aerial or something it was like
this take down to my shoulder
and um and yeah it just popped just
exploded and it was over
then um but long story short around that
time i was like
well i'm already here you know at caster
pyramidante
so i should probably you know like
advocate for myself and like 10
you know appointments later of like and
being sent to every possible
place you know finally they're like all
right we'll give you an mri
um and so yeah that was the beginning of
like i think four
different surgeries or three or four one
for the acl and then three for the
hips on the left and the right side so
um
yeah like yeah so i had like a lot of
cartilage damage because i was like a
hardcore skater for like
man like 13 or 14 years just jumping off
shit
yeah yeah did a lot of damage in there
yeah
like um yeah and so like i'm like pretty
osteoarthritic probably like i'll
probably
i mean knock on wood but it's probably
gonna happen i'll probably need like hip
replacements and stuff oh man
um so at the time it was just it was
tough because you know and it still is
you know
dancing is still my main form of
exercise but um
that was really devastating at that time
because it's just like a lot of you know
you know some one can one conception of
human suffering is like loss of self
like loss of sense of self and for me
that sense of self is derived from a lot
of things that i enjoy doing right
that are act physically active yeah yeah
so that was really hard
um and so yeah and so
you know but again you know we're really
fortunate you know we we are
you know we break you know and so um
and you know and and we enjoy other
dances too right so i was like well i
could just say
um you know i guess i'm just gonna quit
and and that's it but it's like i don't
know you know i'm
i'm i imagine like from your experience
too there's probably been some times
where
you know you have this love that's just
like overflow constantly overflowing and
it's not and that's not going away
but then other aspect of your life is
trying to
you know come in the way of you engaging
with that love in the way that you want
to
and so i guess i just came to a
crossroads where i was like well i could
you know i could um i guess i could just
stop
but i don't know i i don't know i'm
really stubborn and like i just wanted
to figure it out because i remember um
i remember my one of my surgeons like he
was like oh so
this break dancing like whoa where do
you do
it can you i showed him a video
like kid david doing like a six step or
something he was like
oh like yeah he was like you shouldn't
do that
anymore like oh but
oh that's heartbreaking dude yeah he
told me to stop
and i was like fuck man
i don't want to stop um and so but you
know but like you know
after that depressing appointment you
know i was thinking about you know
junior you know ill abilities you know
like
hmm all these i mean just all these cats
that just they
they find a way to move you know they're
all just moving you know it's like
they're they're they all have their
foundation and it's like so
the door i mean i'm sure that there must
be some poppers or
you know other dancers and you know uh
that have found a way to
with their respective styles but i just
saw a lot
of examples in the dance that um that
gave me a lot of hope you know
and um and so and then yeah so i was
like
i'm gonna try i'm gonna admit this out
and
and also just like another thing about
breaking i think the
dancing in general or in a lot of scenes
is like that sense of community too that
you can have with people like i
i really didn't wanna i love that so
much and i didn't want to
lose that either um and i just
appreciate it so much so i
you know i would miss not going to
practice two times a week or even three
times a week and just
hearing the music engaging with people
and and obviously you know getting
exercise and all that stuff there's so
many
positive things about it um so yeah so
basically after that you know i just
i was just like i went online i remember
like i don't know if
you know that people are like peter or
something things from like denmark
do i know this i don't know i know a lot
of useless information but he was doing
like a
planche workout you know like you know
doing all that stuff
i was just looking up all that stuff
because i was just like well you know
these people that have found their own
foundation part of it is like they're
building
on what it is that they are able to do
instead of being focused on what they
can't do
so i was like well my ass worked still
last time i checked
my belly sometime i checked my back is
all right last time i checked you know
shoulders you know yeah yeah
that that's okay at least for now so
it's like why don't i focus on
strengthening
my muscles in those areas why don't i
focus on figuring out a way to move in
all these seemingly awkward positions
but there's a there's always a
there's always a relationship to
establish there's always a connection to
be made it's just that
that path hasn't been like maybe um
explored as much for a lot of different
reasons
one being yeah maybe people think it
just looks dumb or maybe it's just more
difficult
right but but you know that in itself
makes it more worthwhile too because if
you can for me in my mind it's like if i
could find a way to do that then
that would just be wonderful because i'd
be able to dance again and also
maybe make some cool stuff you know
create some new stuff again out of
creating something out of nothing
and it's like the best things that one
of the best things about breaking or
dance in general it's like we're always
in art in general it's like we're
creating we're creating a space we're
creating an environment a mood a feeling
and energy you know that you get when
you go to the gym and everyone's like
you know it's like a party vibe or
whatever it is you know
people are having a good time people
feeling love hate motion
camaraderie competitiveness yeah you
know what i mean
learning you know values about
self-confidence formative experiences
for high school students
and people in their 30s whatever they're
all you know what i'm saying
and it's all from nothing like if you
think about it it's just a bunch of
people
standing in a room a hot and sweaty room
and then there's like two speakers and
some guys like
you know i mean or girl or you know
however you you know identify whatever
your respective gender identity is but
you know what i'm saying like oh it is
and we get so much from it and so i was
like shit man i gotta
i gotta figure this out because i can't
i can't give this up you know
yeah yeah dude that's that's tight and
like so you obviously like work through
those those
um struggles and
i mean that's that's the definition
right there of unapologetically yourself
almost you know what i mean
right yeah yeah it's uh and
so anyways um like so
i think it's it's really cool
uh to share that story because i know
that there's a lot of like new dancers
out there that you know maybe they have
some
something you know that they're
struggling through you know whether it
be
like an actual injury or something
or maybe something different that you
know that we don't understand
but um and that's deterring them from
dancing but i think it's
really cool to hear stories like yours
where it's like
it's almost like it made you better it
kind of gave you a super power in a way
because
you had this you had this obstacle that
you had to get over and it made you
like once you got on the the other side
of the obstacle it was like
a huge door opened up for you and and
you obviously like thrived in that
and yeah i know and junior is a good
example of that too
cujo too it's like all these all these
guys you hear about that
you know had obvious obstacles
in front of them but they were able to
get over it and it
you know made them i mean junior in my
mind is one of the greatest
and yeah yeah like i i
it'd be hard to imagine him being
what he is without like you know the
yeah i think it's like a leg thing that
he has or something so
yeah it's it's a it's really it's really
interesting how that happens it's like
like it's it's a i don't know what you'd
say
disability i guess becomes a superpower
right yeah i mean the what is it i heard
something like you know it's
it's it's so much easier to be yourself
than to try to
you know be someone else or
you know conform to a certain style or a
certain sound like
and i think like it's an exercise in
that like i mean i could have tried to
somehow you know just
do exactly what i was doing before but
obviously it wouldn't have been
sustainable
and it would have hurt a lot too and so
it's like
if you can you know double down on
yourself and like and just remember that
you know that um
you know when you're when you're when
you're on the floor when you're battling
someone you're really like battling
yourself
first and foremost challenging yourself
to yeah just to find your way to move
and story then it's like and you've
already won you know it doesn't matter
what the outcome is like
yeah maybe i i don't have quote unquote
what the judges are looking for
but like i guess this just depends on
why someone dances but in my case it's
like it doesn't even matter
i mean what matters is the effort that
that we write the hours and the
everything that goes into
practicing or everything that like leads
up to that moment you know that one
minute
you know all that time and all that
energy and devotion
for one minute of in my case maybe a
crash
or maybe not a crash right but it's all
it's just so it's so worthwhile you know
so
yeah yeah and i hope yeah so i'll go
ahead
i was gonna say yeah and then all that
kind of pressure on yourself and your
it's a very big mix of emotions when
you're like dan you know dancing
um yeah because it's like a it's a
culmination of everything you've
practiced every experience you've gone
through
and uh you're throwing it all out on the
dance floor in front of everybody to
judge you i guess is yeah
um it's hard not to feel that too in the
moment i get it like we're human right
like i s
i would still get nervous and all that
stuff but um
yeah i would just say man like to anyone
out there if you just rolled your ankle
or you broke your arm or whatever it is
just you know
i mean there are just if if you can you
know after you obviously like
feel the grief you're gonna feel or
whatever it is and you and you're able
to like let that
like flow through you after that then
you know just
think about what it is that you can you
know what what are other parts of your
body or other things that you can focus
on
can you or even like in your mind right
what are things that you can learn about
doesn't even have to be within dancing
right it's like these are opportunities
to
you know work on other things like um
this is like
kind of like loosely related but you
know obviously with um the current
circumstances with like coca-19 i had a
friend who
um he was spending more time indoors so
he got into beat making he started
producing because
um inside more you know so
in general it's just like all this stuff
is a metaphor for the unpredictability
of
like what tomorrow brings and then you
know how and
where you know where i think we can win
is if we
you know we say we ask ourselves well
how can we adapt to this how can
we um i think this is an opera look at
this as an opportunity
um to yeah just explore something new to
further ourselves in some other way
because yeah yeah yeah yeah
and so furthering yourself um
that's a probably a good segue into
you as a med a med school student
um like because obviously that you got
like
a ton of um you know a lot of work to do
tons of
uh pressure like it's
it seems like such a crazy thing to be
juggling
while uh doing everything that you
already do
and uh yeah can you maybe like give give
us a little bit um
about that yeah i mean shit is hard i
think like
i don't know i think i feel like
fortunate that like a lot of the things
that i've
been able to uh pursue or keep doing are
things that you can do
like they're flexible schedule wise like
i'm not in a band
i don't need up with three other people
to you know and then
everything that comes with that or
whatever if you're going to record or
something like that and i don't need to
i don't need to go to like you know some
club if i want to practice you know i
just roll i just walk a couple feet and
then i just roll around you know
so i think like i've
i've had to i'm lucky in that way and
like i've been able to um
you know sustain myself because of that
because of the fact that you know like
at that random like 2 a.m
part of the night where i was at the
library and i just was you know i just
was done studying or whatever i could
just
go do that you know it would be
different if i played golf or something
but luckily i don't no no discs to all
the golf golfers out there
oh shay throwing shit ajax loves
uh golf stuff oh shit sorry hx man i
don't even know you man
hey man don't put that on the highlight
reel man i might get i'm gonna get
called out online
he's chill online instagram live
ajax golf is whack no i'm just kidding
anyway yeah i mean yeah i mean it's like
uh but anyway
yeah i always i always find have found
myself wishing i had more time you know
to do all this stuff but
but then again you know i think about
like before i started school and like
you know when i was you know uh back out
on the west coast how
i would just have some days of like
crazy writer's block where
it would be like i totally have an
entire day to work on stuff and then i
just be like
yeah like just you know kind of break
through whatever
you know and then that versus just like
some days i'll have like 15 minutes or
30 minutes but you can
you know sometimes you make you make a
lot of progress so it's just like you
just don't really know
like what's gonna happen when you show
up the more what's most important is
just showing up
and being open to the possibility and
like i think i've gotten better about
like
all these different strategies for a
creative block um and so
uh that's been really helpful and just
remembering like days like that where
it's like
i was at my oakland apartment and it's
like i had a whole day but i couldn't do
anything right so it's like greener type
stuff you know
so that kind of helps me feel a little
bit better about my life right now
i definitely i definitely feel you on
the
um on the writer's block thing it's like
there's moments where you're like you
really want to do something
and you just like i i don't know how to
do this right now it's like it's almost
like your brain just said nope
this isn't going to happen right now and
yeah
dude it's it's it's a really tough thing
and i mean i i imagine a lot of people
struggle with this
and um so i've come up with a few ways
to get
through it but i'm really curious about
like the the
um like your strategies i mean you
obviously kind of talked a little bit
about it but maybe you could expand on
it
personally what i like to do in terms of
breaking
is i just say you know what i'm just
gonna play
whatever music i like right now whatever
my mood is
and i'm just gonna go and i'm gonna
gonna just dance for 30 minutes
and whatever happens after that i'm cool
with
you know and this is what i would do for
writer's block and so i would go
to the gym or wherever i was gonna
practice
and i just play whatever music i like
and it just puts me in this mood
and then i just roll with it and i find
that that gets me immediately out of the
writer's block because i just kind of
went i went with the mood i had
um because obviously there's some music
for every mood you have
so you just went with that mood and then
just
laid on the ground rolled around or
whatever top rocked or whatever
and then it grew into something now
you're desiring to dance and that's how
i've always
gotten out of that writer's block it's
um it's cool yeah i don't know i don't
know if that if that's
maybe your approach or what what your
approach is
yeah no yeah i think so that's only a
big one like
when you talk about like that that
desire to dance like it makes you think
about yeah like
the things that more times than not the
things that help me get out of it is
when i feel compelled by something
whether that's like a sound or yeah or a
song if it's practicing it's like
very similar it's like i'm not gonna i'm
not gonna think about how i'm getting to
the floor or
what i'm doing um and yeah often it's
the music that um i just stand in the
mood to listen to i think the more times
that we can do that there i i
just feel like there's a much greater
chance that we'll be able to have a
breakthrough moment
yeah yeah i know just and at the very
least it's like you're just
having fun for 30 minutes just like yeah
you know i mean that that's the thing is
with the 30 minutes i say you know what
i have 30 minutes to definitely spare to
do this
and if i can't get it done in 30 minutes
you know oh well i'm not gonna like i'm
not gonna beat myself up over it but i
need to give myself at least
you know 30 minutes i definitely need to
just dedicate to this
to try to to get something happening
yeah and you know and
and i find that most of the writer's
block comes from
you trying to force something on
yourself and so yeah
and and so yeah my strategy was like
don't force it other than that you're
you're just forcing yourself to do
to be in this space for 30 minutes you
know and whatever happens after that
is is cool um but go with your mood go
with
what's going on in your life you know so
there's times when you know like
you're just feeling sad for yourself or
whatever the heck i'll be like man i
just want to listen to cold play and cry
in a pillow
you know what i mean no i'm just playing
but you know so it'll be like i'm just
playing around with coldplay coldplay is
cool dude i love coldplay dude coldplay
is
definitely one of my favorite groups um
but anyway so like there would be times
dude actually i think i've sent you this
we did a
um we me and the rest of my crew second
nature we did a show
to we we tried to do music that
typically you wouldn't dance to
it was kind of like yeah i remember that
yeah it was like a mo
one of our guys was good at like modern
dance and ballet and stuff and so we got
a lot of inspiration from what he was
doing
and we were like let's try to make a
like a modern dance show
out of breaking and so we just took all
these songs so one of the songs was
actually a coldplay song
i like i um i kind of made the whole
piece
for for that section of the show and it
was to this coldplay song
um i forget the name of it um that's it
but yeah
no but i mean that sprouted out of just
me going like oh feeling sorry for
myself like let's listen to coldplay
and then take 30 minutes to just dance
and then like i found that
i just started dancing and creating
stuff and it was like
you know kind of in a different world
than like what you would be doing at
like a jam or something but it's still
like
novel ideas and and something that's
going to help you grow as a dancer so i
you know yeah yeah i love that yeah i
mean
yeah in the literal sense like just
different sounds and
rhythms and stuff like that and speed
just like opens you up to
moving differently you're always going
to move differently and so yeah that's a
huge
for dancing yeah that's such a huge way
to um
get out of that for sure i was just
going to say that um
oh definitely send me that again i want
to watch that again but i'll send it to
you
yeah but also um yeah when you're
talking about that desire
that desire to dance i think it that
makes me think about yeah just a desire
to
to do anything creative in general like
and and i think
for me again that goes back to um
like the question of why right so like
what i mean is like you know some days
i'll come back
extremely exhausted and more times than
not
sometimes the act of practicing or or
trying to work on music or something
feel felt like um
it's almost like ink bleeding bleeding
onto the page from the day
and that ink being like this
goal-oriented like task oriented kind of
thing like
to finish this news and this you know i
mean and
i lose time but it's like that's not why
that's not why i'm doing it but i
i forget a lot you know most days i
forget
and when i'm able to be in a place of
like desire right like when you're
listening to
you haven't even started working on
stuff but you're listening to something
that
yeah makes you yeah feel the desire
uh to make something because you love
you know for me it comes from like
that love of music being like feeling me
so fully that now just like pouring
like you know out everywhere and it's
pouring out in terms of the fact that
like i want to make my own version of
that you know i want to i want to make
i love it so much that i want to you
know tell my story and so like when i
feel that when i'm in a place where i
feel that desire whether it's like
uh you know like you have literally
nothing in your uh
your pro your production program and you
you find one really funny sound that
makes you laugh you know then i i feel
that desire like yo
this funny sound like into something or
that song that you really enjoy
or seeing a project that like you know
you're um your previous guest you know
uh
dj fiction is that yeah yeah yeah like
me you know whatever
any yeah that's that's the only way i'm
able to like get out of it if i can feel
i can come to that place of like desire
or like feeling compelled you know
that's the only way um otherwise yeah
it's just like
i just feel like i'm just checking it's
like a to-do list or something but then
it's like it doesn't have any meaning
for me anymore
not to say that there's not merits to
like because again on the topic of
finishing things like there's merits to
you know trying to start things that you
um or sorry trying to finish things that
you started and stuff like that and
i could talk about that forever but the
point is that i think like
what sets you up like the assist or
whatever that's this past to like how
you know for your slime dunk is like the
the that desire that you're talking
about and
however however you come to feel that
way yeah yeah
it's yeah it's it's creating the desire
out of like whatever
situation you're in at that point yeah
and you know exactly
i definitely think that art make it'll
create more desire to do what you're
doing
uh in you know for example like dancing
like once you start dancing you want to
dance more
but yeah when you're on the when you're
on the the fence of going like do i want
to actually
dance or not that's the hardest part i
think for me
because it's like oh i'm tired i'm
exhausted dude like today sucks like my
you know whatever yeah stupid whatever
was going on today
so you just gotta jump off the fence
really and
that that little 30 that 30 minute rule
is basically me jumping off the fence
like let's just go into the space
see what happens and then hey it just it
just happens after that you know what i
mean i don't think i've ever left
the you know a session um
at af you know after 30 minutes even
though i i've
i've completely dedicated myself to like
after 30 minutes if you want to leave
just
bounce you know and yeah there's no hard
feelings at that point
you know um yeah but i don't think i've
ever left after 30 minutes and there's
been times when i was like
fuck dancing but i still was like let's
go let's just do it
and so i don't know yeah yeah
that makes complete sense yeah i mean i
yeah i mean even last night i
experienced that
and but yeah i never regret it when i
finally get to that place it's like
man this is like the best gift i could
give myself you know
yeah 30 minutes like that's crazy like
because
um that night i wanted to just go to
sleep
and then you know when i do that i feel
even worse the next day i feel like i
have less energy
whatever um enthusiasm but
it's just nuts yeah how like once we get
over that little hump then
um that 30 minutes for me at least it's
like a reboot it's like a
reinvigoration it's it just helps with
everything
i don't know the psychology of it but
there's got to be something
in in like
being basically mentally drained from
whatever you're doing
in your case like you know being in med
school uh
like but entering a creative
world in your brain
it it does like rejuvenate you in a
weird way
oh yeah oh my gosh it's the best thing
man it's like
there's this um producer from los
angeles named teebs and i remember he
had this interview where he was like
uh he was saying that like yeah music is
the only place that makes sense to him
he's like you know it's the only place
that makes sense to me it's a place like
where i can go
yeah something like that it's the only
place i can go where everything makes
sense to me
and that way too it's like i mean the
the things that i made and stuff like
they are um
you know they're places that i hope can
take people somewhere
wherever that is but for me also they're
like literally places i constructed for
myself to escape to
and to exist in because man
sometimes just you know man this uh
the day is too heavy there's too much to
bear sometimes and so
to have a place that you created for
yourself your own like hyperbolic time
chamber or whatever
like yo it's the best in um
yeah it's i mean it's art is a deeply
human thing i think
um and we do a lot of non-deeply human
things
i think in our life i mean obviously
like you know yeah
working in office or whatever like it's
just not
it's not really something that we've
evolved to like be
uh doing all the time you know what i
mean being a part of that because it's
just like
only in the last i don't know what is it
100 years maybe even only like 50 or 60
years
has the human race really been putting
themselves in that
kind of space i mean like we were
basically what hunters and gatherers
like
what i don't know 300 400 years ago or
something
like there's not a lot of time to evolve
out of that world and so
but i think art has been with us since
like basically when humans became humans
or whatever yeah i mean so
uh i think that that's why it's such a
therapeutic
thing for everybody to like to like kind
of go back into the roots of
them as a human and express themselves
to to cope with like all the extra shit
that we've added on to
to our lives in the you know in the past
hundred years or whatever so
yeah man yeah you're speaking on
something so just
man so intrinsic to being human it's a
fundamental part of us and that's why
i trip out like you know sometimes like
you know at least for me in like some
academic spaces you know it's like
let's say you're working with 10
colleagues and they have never met each
other and you have like a morning
meeting and everyone's like
okay you know introduce yourself where
are you from
where'd you go to school and what are
your hobbies you know and then like
people will say what they're gonna say
but like
you know sometimes i'm like damn like
this person didn't mention anything
creative and i like
i and there's nothing wrong with that i
mean i think everything can be
there's some creativity some component
of creativity and a lot of things but
yeah i just it's just something that's
like so yeah like you said so human and
like
something that we should it should be
like mandatory like in
every in like every school curriculum or
every like job
i don't know like description or
something that you should have like time
allocated every day to do
to journal or to whatever you know to
make your make your like latte
art or whatever yeah yeah dude it's like
it should be it should be embedded in
society the same way that other things
are
you know i mean i think it inherently is
embedded into everything but
uh us as like adults and uh you know
just the like
business world and uh i don't know if
this is
maybe it's probably wrapped up in a
little bit in like capitalism too is
is yeah we try to suck it out a little
bit right
um i mean i guess if you're looking at
capitalism straight for what it is it's
it's it's
it's trying to you're you're trying to
get more money for the
the the effort that you're putting in
right that's kind of the uh yeah the
main goal of it right
um yeah and so it's deeply embedded to
be efficient and i think what happens
with that
is you try to make a process for
something
to to be more efficient but by doing
that you're
also kind of taking out a little bit of
the creativity that went into getting
a certain task done right some because
everybody's going to probably approach
the task a little bit different and
that's maybe how they're
they're they're in inserting their own
creativity into it but when you're
saying no
don't do that here's the exact process
you should do because this is the most
efficient thing that we've figured out
in the like
you know 50 years we've been running our
business so do that
and so in the efforts of making more
profit you're kind of sucking out a
little bit of the creativity
and and that's not to say that i think
capitalism
is necessarily like a bad thing i think
it also helps
you know kind of motivate a lot of uh
new new innovations too but i do think
that when we inherently are always like
focused on that kind of
like profits you do stray away from a
little bit of creativity because
essentially like creativity is
a little bit of play right and a little
bit of play
takes a little bit of extra time right
and so a little bit of extra time means
a little bit
less efficiency for the bottom line
right and so
yeah yeah i think like in in that
consideration of like what's
in the best interest of the gdp like
things can fall to the wayside right so
like
yeah he said what you said about the
considerations about creativity or doing
something
for the sake of um personal enrichment i
don't
i imagine that's not built so much into
that algorithm or whatever
that thing is that they figured out was
the most like effective way to make
money or capital
and also just stuff like other things
too that can follow the waste are like
human rights or like or these are these
considerations that are
are also fundamentally human but like
all too often like we kind of turn a
blind eye to them like
yeah but that's a whole other
conversation but yeah but creativity is
a huge part of that too that i think
is a lot of the time because really like
if you think about it i mean
i mean one could argue that like there's
not really a there's not really an end
point to that right you keep
finding ways to generate more and more
and more and then like
and then what you know like what's what
about the people that are
have been building that for so long like
how's their spirit you know like are
they able to be creative are they
able to um yeah have fundamental rights
are they able to
you know live live uh live a healthy
life
and also i guess still while still being
able to help like generate that capital
or whatever yeah
no i i i think probably
what the way to maybe fix that
and maybe this is getting too political
but
is to like really is to put like the
you know the human part about it over
the profit part of it it's okay yeah
i'm not against that at all but
definitely when it's when that's
stepping on
um you know you know creativity
human rights stuff like that it that's
it's not that's not a good position to
to to to be in
uh as like a you know as the for the
human race right
it's yeah i don't know i mean as i mean
as dancers as
as um you know creative people as
you know podcasters i mean like
i think it's like inherently political
and it's inherently
also yeah like it's a platform that
gives us this opportunity to
to you know address or speak on things
that we're also passionate about too so
it's like i think they're
also things that we can't really
separate you know it's like that
creativity is part feeds into that too
and and so like with
music stuff too it's like i didn't want
to obviously be preachy and stuff but i
also wanted to paint like a real picture
of like
because like my mental condition is also
it's just a mirror you know like
i know for many of us like our art is
just a mirror of
ourselves and like how the world is like
affecting us
um in that moment and um i'd be
too explicit with what i uh like
made and created but it also was like
openly
trying to start a conversation about you
know whether that's mental health or
like
the socio-political context in the
united states or
you know the isolation that you know i
feel and have felt as a result of you
know school
or obviously you know everyone needing
to be indoors
for you know people safety and stuff um
you know like i don't know i i guess i'm
just trying to say in a convoluted way
that like we have a responsibility as
artists to
to create spaces for people to like
think about these things and talk about
them
and mo you know maybe even motivate
energize and create enthusiasm around
um doing something in their own way um
yeah to make this world a little better
so yeah
no and i was going to say yeah
really the only the only way to make the
world better is to like
make a conversation about the things you
want the the changes you want
yeah and and all too often i think
things get like super political or
whatever and and like people
just you know go into like an emotional
state and want to like
i don't know get not want to have that
conversation and
uh you know uh yeah i think
that's partially why i created a podcast
because it was like
that i mean i'm just a dumbass
out here like and ah come on man
i feel no i mean honestly i i feel like
i you're not a dumbass i feel like
any kind of brilliance i have is a
culmination of all the brilliance
all the brilliant people that have had
conversations with me right
i think i'm just like a dumb ass that
like was able to like soak in a little
bit of brilliance from everybody and so
um you know before i was doing a podcast
i was still
like having conversations like this all
the freaking time with people like
you know after practices or whatever the
hell i'd be yeah
you know doing that and i'll be like man
i learned so much stuff from just this
person
you know and they might have just been
some regular ass person i remember i
think i talked to like this homeless
dude and he like put me on game about so
much stuff
and um yeah but anyways like so it's
like
being able to like pull pull stuff out
from like a conversation i think was
super helpful for me and i think
that it's it would be very helpful for
other people too and that's kind of why
i
decided to make a podcast because it's
just like
a conversation needs to be had to like
really grow
at least for me and so yeah i mean you
i mean dude we've been talking about
this for so long i feel like for so long
you have been
talking about you know oh man tray like
work on the youtube stuff again or like
you know i want to do this podcast and
everything but it's like
you you know like i i know you're i get
what you're saying i would also just say
that you know you had to think about
what is this podcast really about how
how are you
you know how are you facilitating these
conversations how are you even right
like
how are you even like uh prepping uh
someone that you want to talk about
for their interview or whatever on the
podcast right sending them the questions
or
you know in the design there's there's
so much right like again it's like a
sort of assist too right like
um to the to the interviewee it's like
you're helping you're sending all this
background stuff and orchestrating all
this stuff so that
there can be like a good conversation
that happens in the first place right
you have to
be like the architect of all that stuff
so like you have got to give yourself
some credit man because
you can't like a platform right there's
no platform if there's nothing to stand
on
we are creating that so um
i would just say that in like yeah
anyway
yeah i mean dude i'm i'm i'm trying
you know what i mean uh yes it's like uh
i i mean most of the time when i'm like
figuring out who to get on here and i'm
like figuring out topics and stuff
dude it's for reals just like i'm
remembering conversations i had
with that person before and like all the
strokes of brilliance that has come from
those conversations
to like dig deeper into them
on the podcast and that's kind of like
what
where all that comes from i mean
basically that's what i sent you
i mean me and you have talked about tons
of stuff like that before all these
questions that i've
already sent you so um yeah i mean
again like maybe there's some brilliance
in me maybe i don't know but
i definitely think there's a lot more
brilliance in the people that i
talk to and you know
there's a function i think that there's
a function of
my own intelligence that is highly
uh you know probably like 95 percent of
it is from all the like
smart people around me i think you know
um
you had to be open to you had to be open
to that information
yeah also that maybe that maybe that's
the moral of the story is open
openness yeah yeah maybe
yeah well dude um
this has been a dope podcast i'd like
really like talking to you
um but we're like kind of hitting an
hour ago it's not good
i really like your trait we didn't get
to talk about earthbound but
you want to talk about earthbound we can
go over if you want to
i mean i don't know if you feel like
there's time but i don't want to
push this podcast to the limits but i
just wanted to say that's a great shirt
for all the viewers out there that's
what it's a dope shirt
yeah no i want to go there
yeah i love this shirt too no it's uh
man
earthbound has such like uh uh for
people who don't know
earthbound is like a video game from the
super nintendo era
and it was like i guess what jrpg kind
of
game um but it was so different from
everything else that was put out at that
time
and it's
colorful you know i it has a really
interesting storyline
and it would you know obviously other
games have done that too but like
one of the coolest things that i that i
felt in that game was like it took me on
a journey
um that lasted beyond what
[Laughter]
it lasted beyond um
it lasted beyond what the like scope of
the game is right it was
because i don't know how to explain this
without like ruining the game but
like you go you're you're basically
going typical kind of like
rpg fashion going to like different
areas fighting bosses and like leveling
up and stuff
and uh you know so it kind of tricks you
in a way because you're like oh this is
just a regular game and then when you
get to the final boss
it's like a slap in the face because
it's like
the all everything that happened in the
game is just
uh it turns it it's like it's turned
upside down and there's like this
freaking demonic like thing that's
attacking you and it was like nothing
like anything else in the game and i
just
distinctively remember i was probably
like 12 or 13 playing the game
where i was like oh shit i'm in over my
head like what the fuck did i get myself
into and it was like a deeply um it was
like a moment in my life where i was
like oh my god dude i'm like really
going up against um like
like i i had a feeling where it was like
oh man like
the like i wasn't ready emotionally for
what the fuck just happened in the game
you know what i mean
and you probably know what i'm saying
it's like you're going
everything was like colorful and happy
and cute and stuff in the game and then
you're
facing this boss that's just like i'm
gonna eat your soul and fucking
you know what yeah and anyway so like
that that game just really changed me
because it felt like
it was a uh it was like an
experience for like it was a it was like
a metaphor for like growing up in a way
right right because you're you're you're
a kid you're going through your life
you're you're doing what you're told
you're going you're you're fighting the
bosses you know whatever you're going to
recess and
you know freaking uh you know
going on with your life and shit just
like any other game would
have you do right and then
you are faced with like some actual
fucking shit that is changing you
from a kid to a man right a kid to an
adult right and that's how that felt to
me when i was playing that game
right when you get to that and so like
it always had this deep impact
on my life and so and then anyways like
so later on
i read about what the the author of the
game
was trying to do and he said that he
based the whole ending
on basically like a traumatic experience
he had as a kid
and um going into like the wrong movie
theater or something and seeing some
wild shit or something in a movie and it
just like
it was like a distinct moment when he
realized
he's no longer a kid anymore he's like
becoming an adult
so i don't know anyway so like
[Music]
that convinced me that video games are
like true art
uh and it's a medium for art and anyways
that that's my whole spiel about that
game and that's why i've always loved it
yeah really though i mean the
storytelling in that game and in general
like that's why i gravitated towards
rpgs when i was growing up because the
stories were always good
you know first learning about romance
first learning about
oh it's complex also like complex like
like just or just like just this whole
gamut of topics right
like extraterrestrials and like time
travel
like all this stuff that just ignites
the imagination
and it's just like you know that's
that's that's fun for it
for a kid too it was fun as a kid too
just thinking outside of like
your environment and yeah but i love
that i love that
um that metaphor for
you know transitioning from like
childhood to adulthood and i love that
got that from that and then and then
also that it just turned out that
you know when you looked into it that
there was actually some some of that in
a way you know based on the
experience of the vader that's pretty
dope man i didn't know that
yeah no i mean drop some you just
dropped like
a ton of knowledge like no
yeah no i've always had a very personal
um
uh relationship to that game for sure
because it just like it for real it's
like
like it yeah
yeah no it for reals had like a a
an impact in my life um
i love it it's and you know which is
what
art does and so it it was a
definitely a defining change of
perspective i think in my life and so
wow
anyways i love that and i love that
i love that uh you had some time and
space to talk about that on this podcast
because i think i imagine most of the
time you're
probably more concerned with helping the
guests say what they want to say but
obviously we both love that game so
hopefully that was fun for you
and i hearing it i enjoyed hearing it a
lot because i'm
you know it was nerding out like what
but yeah
that was fun that's some super nerd shit
well anyway so
before we go too much longer um
this i this was a great conversation
dude i'm really glad that you could get
on and uh
hopefully once covet is over we can like
do something in person
because obviously i really want to do
these kinds of things in person
um video calls are not like my favorite
thing
um but anyways uh
while we close this out what are your um
how can people get in contact with you i
know you got your spotify or your uh
you're on spotify you're on
soundcloud yeah yeah all that stuff
um instagram art is in their eyes right
yeah you can send me a telegram you can
um
page me and i'm saying you can knock on
my door and actually don't do that
that's
don't come to his house
um no yeah i don't know i got some links
like i'll just give it to you and you
can like post it on the thing like
check if you want my num
[Music]
[Laughter]
yeah you can slide in the dms if you
want
you can slide in you know we can talk
about earthbound if you're interested
yeah talk about so
don'ts well check out the album
aquastate
hopefully i said that right it's got
some major hits
some dope music and um yo
thanks for listening you guys shit my
cameras are dead
so i got
you like 20 minutes ago yeah well
screen recording will suffice yep all
right peace you guys
[Music]
[Music]
[Music]
you
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