Is Ethical Clickbait Really a Thing? EP - 017

Modern Marketers with Blake Beus and Greg Marshall

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Transcript

Blake Beus 0:00 Okay, we are live. Greg, I want to start off first and foremost, asking you about you. You said you had some some, some feedback, some results based on what we talked about, in our last episode about success signals, soft signals. I can't remember all of them. But

Greg Marshall 0:18 well, basically, it was an idea of remember, and I'm gonna make sure I give them credit. Depeche. Yes. And I don't know how to say his last name correctly, man, Dahlia

Blake Beus 0:26 maendeleo. I think I think that's what it is. Yeah.

Greg Marshall 0:29 But basically, he was talking about a concept that I've thought of before and have tried and had success with. But everywhere you go, and look, you're told to not do right, which is, if you're not getting enough conversion events, which Facebook says you need to get 50 or more, then in a week, in a week. They, they're maybe you should optimize for the next highest step that's closest to what you want. And in a lot of cases, you know, the Facebook, you know, gurus or experts will say, Never optimize for those, because that's just poor quality traffic. But in my experience, I've never had that really happen. It's more so of it seems to give me better results when I'm optimizing for softer conversions if I'm not getting enough of like, let's say the purchase version in that week.

Blake Beus 1:22 Yeah. Well, and we even talked about optimizing simultaneously. Yes. For softer conversion, yes. The the the purchase conversion, the add to cart conversion, and the view cart conversion, at the same time with different campaigns.

Greg Marshall 1:38 Yep. And one of the campaigns the the account that I'm utilizing it on right now, in fact, that day that we implemented it, they actually did end up getting, what is it, we spent 50 and got $200 back, and I optimized for each event, the day that we implement it, which was kind of interesting, because then two days later, they almost repeated not to $200, they got to about like 170, or whatever, when previously on that particular like product that they're trying to push, we're spending 40 $50 a day and getting virtually I mean, just maybe a couple add to carts here and there, and no sales,

Blake Beus 2:18 really, so a huge increase in ROI from zero to 200. Correct. And I'm assuming you're only spending $50 a day because you're testing strategies to before you ramp it up.

Greg Marshall 2:29 Correct? Correct. So obviously, we don't want to go there, you know, dropping three, four hours a day on unproven right, you know, tests, right. And so then the another account that I've launched is with, they also so they stopped advertising for like about a month, which we all know, when you do that. It's almost like you have to like revamp your ad account. So what we did was we optimize for add to cart, and now simultaneously optimizing for purchase. Now previously, we launched a campaign just for purchase, and was getting $90 cost per purchase, whatever very expensive for the for the product, because it's the, the average order value is only 35. Okay, so

Blake Beus 3:12 now I need to look at cost per purchase is not is terrible, that's not sustainable.

Greg Marshall 3:17 So what we did was then I used the method of RM optimize for add to cart and then I'm going to go ahead and simultaneously once we get enough Add to Cart, duplicate the ad set, keep both of them running side by side and optimize the next one for purchase. And lo and behold, that day we got a $20 cost per purchase, the very day that we launched those simultaneous account wide, right? Because account why? Because Facebook's not going to give you this blended cost per purchase or if you're running multiple campaigns, correct. They're only going to give you a cost per purchase on each campaign. Correct? Correct. And so basically by duplicating that, that that goes against what they say, you know, remember we've I don't know, we've talked to this ad nauseum about audience overlap. Yes. And how real is that? Actually? Because what by duplicating? I'm literally targeting exact same audience. Yeah. And the first example I gave you same thing, the exact same eyes, it's one interest, the same interest on every single optimization. So I did not change audiences, nothing. The audiences are exactly the same, same. I'm just changing the conversion optimization event.

Blake Beus 4:29 Okay. And then the conversion optimization is a campaign level set. Correct. So you have three campaigns? Yes. All targeting the same audience. Yep. One is optimized for for purchase Correct. One, the optimization objective is Add to cart, and one is view content. And if you're not familiar with view content, that's essentially a page load. Yep. For but it's a conversion of a page load. Well, and

Greg Marshall 4:54 what's interesting about running those simultaneously is the more I'm talking about There's more. There's another ad account. So I'm actually doing the same thing with, we're optimizing for purchase, because they have enough purchase data for all we've done is duplicate the same audience look alike. 2554 year old female, three different times with different products. There's literally no increase in CPM. There's no increase in anything. But they're all getting purchases. Interest, right. And so I think, basically, this is too early to tell, right? It's only what it was seven days. So yeah, it's still early. But it's showing signs that there is some merit to optimizing for even soft conversions, and that it can help your entire account, even some of the campaigns that you're running that are not optimized for that highest level, right? Yeah,

Blake Beus 5:51 it will. And this makes me realize, like, I'm not entirely surprised by this. I mean, sometimes it's hard to come up with, with an idea or concept like this, you need the idea to kind of be Spark, which is why we're here talking about it. But when we take a step back and look at it, if you understand how AI doing finger quotes, AI works as we don't true AI doesn't exist. It's machine learning. Yep. But how that works. And understand that there are these signals that it takes to identify the success or failure of things. It's just a whole bunch of like, if then statements. But if you understand how that works, from a high level, you can then realize, oh, okay, this totally makes sense. We just need to keep sending positive signals that I helped kind of people self identify to the algorithm that they're interested. And then the algorithm can go out and find more people with those similar traits. Yep. And it just makes a ton of sense. Feed

Greg Marshall 6:51 it a good diet. Yeah. You

Blake Beus 6:52 feed it a good day. Yeah. We talked about nutrition. Right? Not just, you know, you're not just feeding it dessert all the purchase conversion. Yes, sir. Right. You're feeding it a whole

Greg Marshall 7:02 every course. Yeah. Vegetables. Yeah, carbohydrates. So I think it's, it's, it's interesting, though, I definitely would like to follow, I want to keep following up with this, I think maybe give you a small update every week to, to kind of maybe challenge some of these things that are given to us. Because another thing that I'm testing, because of this previous seven day test, is what happens if you have multiple conversions just within a single campaign. That's in a CBO. So campaign budget optimization. Because from what Depeche was saying, he says that, when you have set under CBO, the campaign keeps all the learning. So even if you turn off and duplicate new ad sets, the campaign itself was holding all of that data. So then with that being said, you could use this same formula, and keep duplicating ad sets, and build more and more data much quicker, and expand the size of your audiences over time. Because you can start with a laser targeted audience, duplicate it, and then put a bigger odds and a bigger audience. And hypothetically, if campaign budget optimization holds all those optimizations in there, and all the learnings, when you start to expand the broader, broader audiences, it should understand now who exactly we're going after. So you can find more of those people. I broader scale. So that's my next test is to actually see if there's merit to that. And what I'm going to test against it is, could you do the same at with ad set level, budgeting, keeping all the assets within the same campaign to really see if there's that big of a difference?

Blake Beus 8:53 Right? And if you do that you can only have one objective per campaign, even with a CBO? Correct? Correct. Correct. Right. Right. Okay. So you're basically layering, ever expanding audiences in the CBO setup, right? Because the data learning is, is housed under the campaign umbrella. That'll be interesting, allegedly, right? Like a legit legit, like a court of law in here.

Greg Marshall 9:21 But that's, that's kind of what I think, would be an interesting test to learn. Because if you could do that way, then you'd be able to systematically scale campaigns, and that matter, versus maybe more of like, chaotic manner of like, I think this is gonna work or maybe not right, and you can come up with a system until Facebook changes again, which will be a couple of weeks. Yeah. So that's how we cracked the code with a new code.

Blake Beus 9:52 Well, I'm interested to see how this plays out. And I'm definitely going to be testing out some of these things on my own products and funnels. In the near future for sure. Well, I

Greg Marshall 10:03 think that should segue us into the topic because these are all technical stuff right? You know messing with machine learning things duplicating answers and all that. But marketing never really changes from like, human behavior stamp. Yeah. And so you had a topic that you wanted to go over which I am excited to go into, which is what did you call ethical clickbait?

Blake Beus 10:28 Clickbait ethical quick, right. This is actually one of my favorite subjects. Headlines are one of the most fascinating things for me too. I mean, I know this sounds nerdy and dorky but I love when you start looking at headlines and start looking and realizing that someone somewhere for a good headline someone somewhere stood over that headline for for way longer than you think a person should up and and and came up with something that that made you click on and I fall for this stuff all the time. I need to I have a really good eye at not falling for the dumb clickbait I'm like yeah, absolutely. Especially news story. Yes. Clickbait I'm out of that most of the time Yeah. If if a news story says something like so and so may be wanting yada yada yada I'm out I'm not clicking on me maybes especially if it's like a political figure or something. I'm like, I want I want solid facts. But when it comes to marketing materials or or something like that, or or YouTube video Yeah, I'm, I love it. I love it. And this whole topic was was sparked by by a video that I shared with Greg Yeah. And the YouTube channel is Veritasium it's a Science Channel. I do science Sunday with my kids and we watch science YouTube videos in the morning. And this is one of our channels. And he has one on on clickbait Yeah, and he talks about it and it's it's a great video. I can't remember what the title of that video is. But it got me thinking about how how you can actually have ethical clickbait that does trigger that part of our brain and curiosity gets us curious, gets us interested gets us to click on that link. But then also delivers on what the curiosity you know, whatever piqued the curiosity, and that's what I would consider, you know, ethical clickbait the kind of clickbait that everyone hates is the is the clickbait that's its it tease is that something grand and big or curious or scandalous? And then when you click on it, it's a non story. It's a non issue later. It's unrelated. And then and then moves on. Yeah, I mean, you see, you see it all the time, I saw one for a political scandal. And I had pictures of two politicians. One of them is a politician from my state that I'm not too thrilled with. Yeah, all the time. And so I clicked on the article. And it was the scandalous headline. Yeah, I read the article and has one sentence about my sander. And it was actually something that he did good. Yeah, to oppose the the, the the scandalous thing. And but it wasn't like a super great thing, either. It was kind of just a half measure effort. And I was so disappointed that I feel Yeah.

Greg Marshall 13:22 Every once in a while you get one of those quickly, because you know, I'm susceptible like anyone else. But everyone's like, Oh, man, I clicked What a waste. I just wasted my time thinking that this is gonna be about something totally, you know, different or unrelated. So I think, but, you know, so let's talk about why headlines are important.

Blake Beus 13:42 Okay, so headlines are important, because they're literally the first thing that people read or look at it. I mean, if you have an ad, some the term headline gets a little bit mushy. When you have like an ad in Facebook, cuz you have the image, you can have text in the image. So your headline is technically probably the text in the image, not the text underneath the image. But if you don't have text in the image, the headline is probably either your first sentence in your ad copy, or the the text underneath the image. So it's basically the text that people see first. Yep. Is is going to be what we would consider a headline right now. So at least we have that defined. Now, if we're talking about ethical clickbait it, it needs to be something that builds curiosity, when I first started running ads, my ad copy was was so bad. Yeah, it was terrible. And it would be something like I've written my ticket. It would be something that focused solely just on the features of whatever I was selling. Right. So So let's see, when I when I launch my social media content plan. At first it was something like social media calendar. Yeah. You know, and that was my headline. Yep. And I'm like, I think thought it was gonna be awesome. Yeah, we've all been there. It wasn't, it wasn't. So you need to have something that piques curiosity. And honestly, there are books out there that cover this subject subject in tons of depth. But let's, let's just talk about a few commonalities that I think both you and I could see. And I don't have a formula for this. But I've seen some formulas that I think work, not not formulas, I've seen some things that work well that you could probably use. The first thing I would say is, you absolutely need to have an understanding about two things about your customer, what they actually want. And what they actually are afraid of. Yep. Right. So their, their hopes and dreams. Yep. And their their fears and insecurities, essentially. And you know, you

Greg Marshall 15:49 could also add to that to the second one, hate? Yes, that's because it's a powerful emotion.

Blake Beus 15:56 Yes, it is. It is. And if you have a good understanding of those things, then your headline can be centered around this the concept of push and pull, right? We're going to pull them towards their hopes and dreams through our product or service, or we're going to push them away from their fears, insecurities and hates because of our product. Yep. And so that would be kind of the the first thing. So with the social media content plan, I shifted my headline to and this worked way better to be something along the lines of never, never stare at a blank screen again, when publishing your social media account, something along those lines. I mean, it was probably more juicy than that. But, but yeah, so Greg, tell me, I mean, what are you thinking? Are some of the good things that give you a good a good headline?

Greg Marshall 16:45 Yeah, I think anything that draws big emotion, like you said postpone emotion and is very like polarizing, ooh, polarizing. Yes, that's absent. That's. So for example, if you have a love or a hate of something, then the headline by itself should be able to stir that emotion. Right. So it should trigger it in some way. For example, we all love Donald Trump. Right? Love.

Blake Beus 17:18 He's a polarizing person,

Greg Marshall 17:20 right? But they think about what is happening. I said, we all love Donald Trump, it becomes as uncomfortable. Yeah, because what it does is like, Donald Trump is a polarizing figure. And it draws big emotion on either side. And the way to get one side or the other to pay attention is actually like, use his name, and then say the opposite of the belief of the person watching it. So like Donald Trump does is the best, you know, president to ever, you know, be elected. And that's going to trigger one side, right?

Blake Beus 17:58 And why would that trigger the most?

Greg Marshall 18:00 I think it'll trigger more on bullet don't like that. Don't like him. So

Blake Beus 18:03 if you wanted someone to click on that headline that did not like Donald Trump, you would use the headline, Donald Trump is the best president Correct? Here's why.

Greg Marshall 18:16 Correct? Because what that does this like, there is no way that is possible, I have to see what kind of, you know, lie or made up thing that they're gonna say, and then I want to comment on it, which starts triggering a whole bunch of other things, right. And vice versa, you know, you would do it the other side. And so, to me, he's like the perfect sound because he is like the definition of

Blake Beus 18:39 polarizing no, and no one I know. And I know people that love him, and I know no one I know. Phil's lukewarm. Yeah, Donald, like he's a he's okay, or whatever. Yep. I don't know a single person like that. I only know people that love him or hate him. Correct. And that's what we mean polarizing and you can do the same thing with your product or service. Something along along those lines you can one strategy I've seen a lot of people do is they'll they'll take down like a common belief share about a particular thing. And then they'll attack that. That common belief like it could be something if I wanted to target if I wanted to trigger advertisers Sure. I could say something I could say something along the lines of Facebook ads are dead, you should not use them moving this day forward. And I will get every advertiser to click on that link. Now I need to if to make this ethical click I need to be free. I need to like deliver on that which I don't think I could deliver on that unless unless I had some serious proof about a specific use case in a specific industry where Facebook ads just completely dropped the ball and fails. Then you could probably use a headline like that and still make it ethical clickbait

Greg Marshall 19:51 well, and one thing that you just brought up I remember reading a book on Steve Jobs, and how he like prepared his speeches. I bought this book years ago, because I had to give a speech and I was like, Man, I, you know, I need a few pointers on how to position. And that was like the one that the only one that like made sense, but one of the things that he mentioned, is a good headline would actually be creating an enemy. Okay. And then this is what he did all the time with Microsoft. So he would build up the enemy, the story of Microsoft is bad. And we're good. Yeah. Right. And by creating headlines that maybe create an enemy, that's also very powerful as far as getting people to click it, because you're speaking to your base, essentially. Right, right. And that's another way I think of getting a headline to work really well, is to very powerfully talk about a subject that people feel attached to, and then prove it by showing the other side is wrong. Right? You see this in politics? Yes, with how they communicate about the left or the right or this. That's a good, it's a good thing to learn. If you're trying to get someone to consume something, your message is, is how do I speak to the base, where they're very attached to it, and then create an enemy of how they're trying to take this away from us? Oh, yeah, that's, that's like a very powerful, you know, click Beatty headline, is to be able to communicate that in a concise way.

Blake Beus 21:35 I think you just summarized American politics 100. Because I do feel like so much effort is put into turning, you know, the other side into the enemy, therefore, vote for me, because they're going to screw up everything. Regardless of what side you're on. That's the exact same message, I feel like, you know, is said, and we probably see that in a bunch of other ways in advertising, but because it's not politics, yep. We, we, we see it and we kind of don't think about what's actually, what's actually,

Greg Marshall 22:11 here's a question I have for you. Yeah. Since you're, you're a computer guy. Yeah. Right. So which computers better? Mac or Apple?

Blake Beus 22:21 Mac or apple? I mean, Windows

Greg Marshall 22:23 or Windows? Are or Apple windows? Or? Absolutely, that shows you how much I'm not. Which was better?

Blake Beus 22:32 So I'm, for me, it depends. And I'm an I'm an IT depends kind of guy. I'm not a super, super passionate about that argument, like some people are Yep. I personally use Mac computers. But I dislike everything else about the Apple ecosystem. I don't like I don't like iPhones. I don't like the air pods. I don't like iPads. I don't like any of those other things. But I do like Apple computers. So I'm a little bit of an anomaly. But most people do have that question. And they're going to have a very strong opinion, it's going to be Windows or it's going to be apple. And usually, if it's a Windows guy, the windows person gonna see well, Apple, Apple is they just try to control you with everything and try to force you to use everything in their ecosystem and all of that, whereas Windows is much more open. And I can do kind of whatever I want on it. And then you get the Linux people and they're just out in left field. Those guys are right, those guys are deep, and I fit in that category A lot of the times but the apple people will will talk about the sleek design, and the the new processor that's super fast, which it totally is, and all of these, all of these different things. But a lot of people are very passionate about that subject.

Greg Marshall 23:39 Well, I asked that question, because you're considered lukewarm. And look how many examples you just gave. Yeah. Microsoft is better than this. Apple is better than Linux better. Yeah. And those might even be all related. I don't know. But that's, that's the definition of like, if you're lukewarm, if you're trying to talk to people that are big time windows or big time Mac, or then you can basically kind of play off that and build the enemy on the other side. Right? Yeah. And that's, that's the whole point of like, the headline is, you almost have you almost have to do that, in order to spark someone's attention or grab, you know, grab their attention and interest. Because if not, it's just it's not going to be enough for them to go, I need to read this, I need to watch this. I need to do this.

Blake Beus 24:29 Right. Right. Which leads me into the next point that I wanted to bring out. And this is where a lot of people go wrong. And this is where I went wrong for so long with headlines. And I see this all the time. But but but when you ask most people, what's the objective of the headline? Why are you writing this ad? Why do you have this image? Why do you have this headline? What are you trying to get people to do? And most people will say, Well, I want to get them to buy my product. Sure that's wrong. The purpose of the headlines too far too far down the road. The the the objective of your ad, your ad, copy your ad image, your ad video and your headline, specifically your headline is to get them to take the next step in your sales cycle, the next step in your customer journey and for an ad that is to click

Greg Marshall 25:15 Yep, that's it.

Blake Beus 25:15 That's the the whole point of all of those things is to get someone to click. Yep. And then and then the the the objective of your sales page is to get them to add it to the cart not to sell yet. Yep, add it to the cart. Right. And here's another thing a lot of people fail to realize, in in any sort of sales journey for a customer, you have multiple headlines. You have a headline on your ads. Yeah, you probably multiple ads at the same time. You have a headline on your sales page or your product page. You have a headline in your cart. People don't realize this, that headline in your cart matters. And then you have a headline in the card processing page. Yeah. Right. And all those headlines need to be considered at each step of that process, to get people to move to the next step. Yep. Right. And, you know, your your headline on your cart page could be very, very simple and very generic, because you don't always know what cart what items are in the cart. But your headline could be something very simple, like reassuring them. Yeah, right. 30 day 30 day guarantee simple checkout process, something like that, right? 100% secure, yep, whatever could be reassuring, or it just just whatever to remove any sort of final objections someone might have. But that headline also counts. Yes. And it matters. And it needs to be looked at. Well, headline, also, one word trigger.

Greg Marshall 26:49 What the headline needs to do is trigger something. Yeah. Right. And so whether that emotion and it's triggered the emotions, whether that emotion is starting from, you know, this is outrageous, all the way to, you know, let's say they're going to go purchase that the car page, this is safe. Right? Right. So you're trying to move them on an emotional roller coaster, essentially with headlines. Yep. is communicating things in the most concise and powerful way to cause people to act? Right. And that's, that's what the headlines are all about. And I feel like some of the best ones I see. They use emotional words in them as well. That's like another tendency I tend to see is in the headline, it'll have some level of emotion. And the words, yeah, right. whether, you know, for me, some of the YouTube stuff that I see, that seems to work really well, is like using words like blasts, or, you know, things that that that talk about, like, essentially overreacting, if I were to make like one simple way of saying something that causes an overreaction, right is the type of word that tends to be, you know, in the headline and a marker that I see that uses this is the that Alex, rosy guy. On YouTube, he's really good because his head, I can tell he spends a lot of times headlines because he'll say, like, how I figured out the Starbucks business model, how maybe $100 million or something, right? Yeah. Things like that. Which say, like, that almost makes you say that's impossible. Clicked. That's impossible. This this guy's full of shit. There's no way that he did. But you know, he has done it, but he's using the headlines in a specific way. Yeah, to make you feel a certain way to click it. Alright.

Blake Beus 28:40 Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So before we wrap this up, I wanted to give people a couple of practical strategies that they could start using today. And my number one tip is I don't know, if you use Google Drive, or whatever, some sort of central way. My favorite thing that I do is I screenshot headlines and thumbnails and ads, and I put them in a folder called add inspiration. So whenever I come across one, while I'm browsing Facebook, or something like that, or YouTube or whatever, I screenshot it, and I put it in there and I think, oftentimes are called swipe files or whatever. But I think nearly everybody, if they're interested in advertising and marketing, they need to be doing that. Yeah. Even if you schedule some time. So you schedule 10 or 15 minutes to go look it up, get headlines. The other thing you can do is Facebook. Facebook has their ads library. And a lot of people don't know about this, but I think it's just facebook.com/ads/library or something like that. You can Google it, to find it. But you can go in there and type in any advertisers name and it'll pull up the ads that they're currently running. Yep. So I got a huge kick out of this during the 2020 election. because you can go look at that. And if it's a political ad, they will also publish how much money they spent. Yeah. So that was interesting to see how much money the campaigns are spent because they know which one is worse. I mean, I'll tell you both campaigns spent probably a little bit over $200 million on Facebook alone. Yeah, Facebook ads alone, which

Greg Marshall 30:22 is insane. And that's that's not including I saw a ton of YouTube.

Blake Beus 30:27 Oh, yeah. YouTube. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So anyway, but political ads. So if you think about this, if they're spending $200 million on Facebook alone, they are clearly spending a lot of money on the nation's best copywriters for ads, right. And the NES the nation's best video people for every video so that so when when you have a presidential campaign, go, you know, in the United States, wherever you go look at those ads, because they are structured so perfectly to to rise, emotion, and then screenshot the ones you think you can adopt the principle behind what they're doing to your products or services, and put those in your ad swipe.

Greg Marshall 31:10 Yeah. So I think that's a great tip as far as learning from the best because love him or hate him. Politicians, political campaigns, they are the best in the world, at coming up with direct response. I mean, you name it direct response, branding, public relations, they got the best of the best. And so that's a great way to learn. How are they positioning themselves on the products to drive a lot of emotion, because if you notice, the emotional, I guess, feeling of at least here in America, right now is nowhere near what it is around election time, no matter who's running, it doesn't matter who's running, it's always the same when it starts getting closer and closer, you can almost you know, you could feel the tension in the air. It's, I hate this guy hate that guy. And so I just feel like, it's a great tip to learn powerful headlines, how to structure them, and how to like effectively use them in your business, because you can use those same concepts in virtually any business, right create anatomy, create your, your, you know, your your base of users create, you know, a headline that really like hooks the person in and in the most concise way possible. And it should make them feel a very overreacting emotion in order for them to click it. If you get that that's when you know you're doing it right. And so when you talk about your swipe file, or your ad inspiration, you take a look at some of those if you if you notice the ones that tend to do really well, if you show them to other people or talk about what they're doing, the general response from the people you show it to is I hate that ad, or I can't stand when people do this. Yeah. Or when they market to me like this, that typically means is working. Because there's a huge emotion attached to it. Yeah, for example, Tai Lopez, right. Most people, I mean, he doesn't run as many ads anymore, like on Facebook, but like you as someone five years ago, what do you think of Tai Lopez, it was almost the same as Donald Trump. Like, oh my goodness, this guy, he's flashing this and he's doing that I can't stand it. He's a Ferrari. And, you know, vote and on and on and on. But he also is highly effective, because he's, it's almost like you have to have the guts to drive that kind of emotion. Right? Right. Because that does take you do have to have a stomach for that. And I do feel like people like

Blake Beus 33:45 Tai Lopez really, is a little bit too far. It's on that last line of clickbait because he's really promising some pretty crazy stuff. But you can use those principles and shift it so that you so that it works for you. And then it becomes ethical and for raining that bad. Because yeah, I get it like, yeah, Tai Lopez, definitely, he's flashing cash all over the place and basically, very heavily implying that if you follow what he's doing, you'll, you'll be fine. You can be flashing this kind of cash to all your friends. And that's just not realistic. Now, if you're selling something, you know, like T shirts or whatever, you can use the same principles of envy of emotional poll, whatever, to to sell a t shirt, and there's less of an ethical correct, you know, dilemma there because you're not promising by this t shirt, and you're going to be flashing cash to all your friends. More like buy this t shirt and your friends are gonna laugh and think you're like the cool person or you statement or whatever. You're still drawing On that same principle, but you haven't crossed the line over into the unethical side. Yes. of clickbait.

Greg Marshall 35:06 Yeah. So I think with that being said, you know, I think, work on your headlines focus heavily on improving them and drawing more emotion. There's like, if there was a hack, it would be focus all of your effort on driving the motion. Yeah. Right. So, with that being said, Blake, how do people get ahold of you?

Blake Beus 35:31 I'll just go to Blake calm. I got all the contact information on there.

Greg Marshall 35:34 And if you need to get ahold of me, go to Greg marshall.co. And if you want to book a call, feel free to enter your information and I'll reach out and then Blake

Blake Beus 35:46 Yeah, you can reach out to me on there and we can I have a membership where I help people with social media marketing strategies. That's super fun. Oh, that membership, a lot of people love it that are in there and you can sign up on there. It's called SM three. And in that and then you can contact me on my website. So we'll talk to you guys later. All right. See you Bye.