Episode 6 - Life Gets Dark As One Of Jehovah's Witnesses

This JW Life

In this episode you're going to see just how dark things can get as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You will see my life as a young person growing up, into adulthood, and into my married life. This is a very personal episode and although it will get dark, you will see where the light came from in a very unexpected way that helped us to eventually exit the cult. Resources Mentioned: Driven To Distraction - Edward Hallowell and James Ratey Direct Download Here [expand title="Click Here To Show Transcript"] [00:01:51] So after the last two episodes you should have a good idea of the influences that were put upon me. And of course other Jehovah's Witnesses though obviously when you're young and you're in your formative years these things weigh heavily on your mind and heart. I myself was also always kind of the kid that took things very seriously. It's just the way I'm wired and I pay attention to words and words have always had a lot of meaning to me. For example when I was really little my grandpa told me that he was going to take me to the circus. [00:02:24] He said we're going to have a ball. Well when he showed up without a ball I was crushed. I didn't know what the circus would be like but I thought that he was going to bring a ball and whether it was a baseball or basketball. When those rubber bouncy balls whatever that was always my favorite toy. So he said we'd have a ball. And then he didn't produce one. So as a tiny child I had no frame of reference for this phrase that he used and he had to buy me a ball before we could go to the circus. [00:02:58] So you know take that child. And I guess you know I don't know maybe it was just me. Maybe it's most children that you tell something like that. When reading this propaganda that Jehovah's Witnesses produce. When I was at meetings and it was being fed to me from the platform I took it all in and took it very seriously. After all I was told that this meant my life and my happiness. I've already spoken as to how my life changed when I was eight or nine and my parents became witnesses and things changed at home and at school. And now I've laid out the fog and what I was living in as far as the teachings and the structure of what was expected of us goes. But now I'm going to kind of chart my course as a young Jehovah's Witness growing up into adulthood so that you can see the progression of things. And as promised I'm going to get to an event in 2008 something that just came out of absolutely nowhere that set my life on a different course a much healthier one. I had no clue that that was going to be the beginning of the end for a lot of things for me at that time. As a kid in the creation I took my first steps as a young Jehovah's Witness by going out in the field ministry with my parents at first just accompanying them to the doors and then later I would get a knock on the doors myself and give presentations. [00:04:24] Kids are awesome little weapons for witnesses to use at the door because let's face it who's going to turn away a cute little kid in a suit or a dress that is offering some sort of well at the time it was cheap and now it's free literature. So when you look at it kind of like cements to this child that this door to door ministry thing is actually pretty cool and easy. [00:04:46] People like you and they appreciate you coming to their door when you're cute and you're well-dressed you know they'll look at you and say oh you know look at how well-behaved he is and things like that. You place magazines with them and you feel good. [00:05:05] So then I became an unbaptized publisher. This is where the organization started to get more of a grip on me because you start being able to turn in field service reports of your time and literature placements even though you aren't yet an official baptized Witness. You kind of almost feel like you're cheating. It's like a cheat code. You start feeling like you're the real deal. You meet with two elders in a back room and they ask you a few questions to make sure that you're a morally upright person and that you're you can represent the organization publicly. I'm pretty sure honestly most of the questions probably don't even apply to a little kid. But you know it's a big deal it makes you feel like you're doing something. My parents were still studying with me. I was going to all the meetings developing as a young minister going out publicly declaring the truth. And then I started feeling pressured to get baptized. Now in order to get baptized it's called actually dedication and baptism. So first you're expected to dedicate yourself to God Jehovah in prayer water immersion or baptism is the public symbol that a person has dedicated their life to Jehovah or more accurately Jehovah's Witnesses in prayer. The funny thing is they act like that's between you and God. But in order to get baptized even though you prayed and dedicated yourself to God you first have to go over these baptism questions with three elders in the congregation. They would determine if you are ready for baptism not some prayer between you and God. [00:06:45] So there's a book and in the back of our questions for baptism you pore over these questions reading cited material and scriptures. You have to meet with three elders one for each section to show that you have a working knowledge of the truth and what they want you to have a working knowledge of. Most Jehovah's Witnesses remember who those three brothers were. It's a very personal thing. I remember the three who met with me. However one thing that I remember is that even as a child I realized that I was smarter than some of them and it made me wonder about some things. For instance a good sign that any Jaida of making the truth their own which is another Jehovah's Witness time making the truth your own. Or as I like to call it dub speak for brainwashing and that it's working if you could answer these questions in your own words not from reading from one of their publication that shows that you have made the truth your own well there's one elder in particular that would ask me questions and what I would answer them in my own words he would tell me that I was wrong and then give a simplified version of my answer. [00:08:00] Word for word out of some publication like he didn't get it when I put it in my own words. It was a little disconcerting even as a kid. Here I was basically going for extra credit and it was over his head and he was an elder. I thought I was going to fail and not be able to get baptized because he wasn't the brightest person ultimately though those three brothers got together after going over the questions with me they discussed my worthiness even though I'd already dedicated myself to God in prayer and then they decided what was between me and God was cool with them and approved me in his absence. So [00:08:37] I was able to go get baptized on July 4th 1990 to 14 years old. I was officially baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses at the district convention that summer at Freedom Hall in Louisville Kentucky. It was in front of probably 10 to 12000 people. Scientologists like to talk about their billion year contract or whatever but I just locked in a forever contract between me and Jehovah's witnesses they're going to have a billion years. I call it infinity on it. Things started to change after that. As a baptized brother I was now expected to pray publicly at the meetings to either open or close them as they say a prayer before and after every meeting. So I did that at times. I started getting more talks at the meetings instead of just the bible readings for five minutes. Sometimes I would be given a subject and develop a talk around that subject and give that for five minutes. I forgot to mention this before but after each person gave their talk they were actually graded on it publicly from the platform. By that the Kraddick Ministry School conductor you were always given something to work on like hallways or gestures logical and coherent development and so on. If you didn't do well you would be told to work on it again. Or if you did you'd be given something else to work on. There is always something you could be doing better. [00:10:02] I was given responsibilities in the congregation like handing out magazines that people would order taking orders from people keeping him in story. I'd help my dad count the money that was donated after the meetings to sign off on it before he took it to the bank. I cut the grass at the Keenum hall every few weeks when it was our turn. I clean the Kingdom Hall after field service on Saturdays when it was our turn. When there was a convention we would volunteer to do something at it. Maybe it was cleaning or do some Once we did security at night and kind of like stayed overnight. We never really took vacations. But once or twice I do remember us taking a long weekend to go to unassigned territory to help some congregation out. For those who are unfamiliar with the term that means that some congregations often in rural areas couldn't cover the large area that they had to cover. Maybe they had an entire county or maybe there wasn't even a congregation nearby so groups would form from different congregations and they would go down to these areas that were never hit with our message and we can go on an all out blitz and spread the truth in that area. I guess that was our idea of a vacation. So in addition to meetings three times a week for five hours spending back then probably 10 to 20 hours a month or more knocking on doors and going to school. There were all these other things that I just mentioned that I had to prepare for and do as a young Jehovah's Witness. [00:11:31] Oh and it's so hard to capture all the things that I actually forgot to mention the most important day of the year for Jehovah's Witnesses. It is the memorial of Christ death the one observance that Jehovah's Witnesses have once a year they get together after sundown on the day that corresponded with his Last Supper and his death and they will do the whole bread and wine thing. Only they don't partake of any of it. We just literally sit there and pass it around to each other in you know the wine goblets. Or on a little plate for the unleavened bread according to Jehovah's Witnesses there are two groups of people that are going to live forever. One the vast majority will live on a paradise earth. Remember they kind of believe it's going to go back to the Garden of Eden that that was God's original purpose and he's going to fulfill that. And then the other group will be one hundred and forty four thousand anointed ones that will rule as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus over that paradise earth. [00:12:33] Now how do you know if you're one of that anointed heavenly class you just know they say I think that God's Spirit speaks with yours and if you are you and you alone can partake of those emblems at the memorial. Now most corrugations don't actually have any anointed ones that will partake. This was our one ceremony that we did a Jehovah's Witnesses and we passed around the bread and we passed around the wine and we just sat there appreciating all that had been given for us to have the hope of salvation. I know that's not exactly on topic but I mean I'd feel bad if I'd left that out it was. There was one thing that we did each year that was special to us. It was I guess it is kind of like our one holiday or whatever you want to call it. [00:13:24] It was a it was a solemn occasion it was to be taken very seriously now but there was joy because this was what gave us our hope. The death of Jesus Christ and this thing that he instituted there was actually also a large public outreach to the community. [00:13:44] When that comes every year in the spring you'll see Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door just leaving these little invitations for everybody to come to the memorial service. All right. Now back to my story. You know once I turn 16 Things started changing even more. I was actually given a car to another brother at the Kingdom Hall. It didn't run but I got it to run. It was a rusted out beater but it was my first car and I loved it. I hated being at home because of my dad and I knew that a car was my gateway to freedom so I got a job working part time at a Wendy's near my house that I could walk to save up money fix the car got my license and with that came some measure of sanity and distance from my family. Obviously I didn't have a ton of time with you know all that being a witness entailed but at least I could you know drive to meetings by myself or go out in the service by myself or even you know do so with my friends. I didn't have to be at home or honestly be around my dad for the most part and I would do just about anything not to have to. Actually I even still walk to work because it took longer than driving. [00:14:59] So it would save me time for having to be there with that car I was now able to auxilary pioneer in the summer months when we were off school. So I signed up to spin basically 60 hours a month and I signed up for June July and August to go knock on doors. I wanted to be a good Jehovah's witness and was told that I was setting a great example for other young people in the congregation. I liked that praise it was about all I got so it was a feeling that I was doing something right. I started being asked to read from the platform at the meetings and in the private homes that we went to for book studies. So I would sit up there with the conductor and I would read all of the paragraphs of whatever book or whatever lesson from the Watchtower we were being indoctrinated with that day. [00:15:51] It's funny because you know although things were changing even throughout my childhood life as one of Jehovah's Witnesses is kind of like that movie Groundhog Day where every day is the same. I have to say at that point I was fully and truly brainwashed. I was 100 percent in and I was 100 percent certain that we had the truth. [00:16:18] I had a lot going on but I also started to develop some good friends. Once I got my car I was able to go out and actually get my friends and do things I was kind of one of the first to have a car. We usually just you know went out and played sports. I loved basketball and football. I would play those all day if I could. Honestly I'll never forget that time. [00:16:42] It was one of the best of my life. Not necessarily the the Jaida stuff that was going along with it but I had friends and we were we were pretty tight. [00:16:52] We go to movies we went fishing we just hanging out playing video games. Just it was it was an awesome time. [00:17:03] I kind of felt like at that point I felt like I really belong. It was great it was a great feeling. Now I've already mentioned that I graduated high school and turned down college to regular pioneer but I haven't mentioned yet is that Jehovah's Witnesses even pressure you to have a certain type of car. All the ex witnesses now will shake their heads. You had to have a good service car. You see you want to have a Ford or a car or. [00:17:32] I mean if you're really spiritual You might even have a minivan so that you can use it to drive everyone around out in field service Well it was a good thing that the car I was given had four doors because that's what I needed for this period of my life and I was a regular pioneer. The only problem is that I always drove and nobody ever chipped in for gas or where tire anything. Eventually my car died. I was working several part time jobs going out knocking on doors for 90 hours a month still doing all the Jadot stuff. I was then appointed as a ministerial servant in the corrugation one step up from where I was as a regular publisher a regular brother in the congregation but also one step under being an elder. I guess you could say I was I was on my way. I conducted various parts at the meetings. I gave talks I ran the literature department I ran the magazines I helped with the sound department. [00:18:34] Oh yeah. [00:18:35] And I was also pioneering doing all the regular JTA stuff and working three part time jobs each month as a ministerial servant I would have shepherding calls to go on a shepherding call is a term for essentially the elders in each congregation are supposed to call on ones that need help each month. That's why you know so I like look through your field service reports and say oh this brother here didn't go out last month. We need to go encourage him and have a shepherding call or you know I heard Sister so-and-so is depressed and you know we should go see her what I kind of realized was that a lot of times these calls didn't actually happen when they did it seemed like we only ever saw the same people. Lots of people never even get such a call. Some people feel intimidated by these calls and think that like the elders are coming to you know get them in some sort of trouble which is kind of funny and know just hit me while I'm talking about it. And this shows that the control of the authoritarian regime of sorts in a congregation where even the shepherding calls that were supposed to be of encouragement. They were supposed to be just coming to tell you what a great person you are and give you some something of building from the Scriptures. And most people were terrified of having these shepherding calls. [00:20:04] So it really kind of shows you know the attitude and the device and the division between the elders in the congregation and the rest of their supposed flock that they're basically afraid of the elders eventually you know through working all these jobs and doing all this stuff I burned out I stopped pioneering. I was out of money. Car was broken. I was going into debt trying to get another car. A little cheap car to drive around. I kept praying to Jehovah for help. I mean here I am supposedly doing all the right things and everything is going wrong. Of course that's not a lack of Jehovah's help that's Satan bringing me down. So you know here I was trying to do all the right things and Satan was just putting up all these obstacles in my path. [00:21:01] I ended up stepping down as a ministerial servant too. I just I burned out so hard. I needed to go back to square one to start again. Of course when when you step down from any of these positions they even announce that from the platform. [00:21:17] And so you know just like if you were disfellowshipped they'd say brother so-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses if you're no longer an elder or a pioneer or a ministerial servant they will go up on stage and let everyone know brother so-and-so is no longer serving as an elder or in my case a ministerial servant and a pioneer in the creation which I honestly like whenever something like that is said it kind of cast a pall over you. Like people start looking at you different. It's not it's not that you're just burned out. There must be something wrong with you. Anyway this is a big deal for me. It was you know one of the first issues of cognitive dissonance I had already always heard these stories these virtual miracles that were performed when people prayed to do the right thing and how Joe would swoop in and make it work out somehow but it wasn't happening for me. You know here I was doing all the right things. I was praying intently to Jehovah and nothing was happening for me. For me it just meant me working more and more hours you know doing something pioneering or whatever that I was absolutely miserable in. [00:22:28] And I gave up so much to do this. Where was God. Where was my help from hell. I would push it down in China to think about it or think that you know maybe it just wasn't part of his plan for me. But I tried so hard I just couldn't make it work. And I wasn't getting help from anyone and certainly not God. At 19 or 20 I just went ahead. I had the money. I moved out of one side of a duplex. Things were starting to change though as I got older and time passed. Friends started leaving the organization and so I was you know starting to miss some of the people that I had been friends with. [00:23:11] People would just grow apart or you know get busy. I mean this happens with everybody you know as you get older. People grow apart they get busy they get jobs they have families whatever. You know we weren't kids anymore. We had responsibilities. And so in the end I ended up with more time alone and to be honest I didn't like it all that much. Looking back now I can see that I probably didn't really like myself very much. I was bullied relentlessly in school not just because I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses and was different in that way. But I was also a super skinny kid with terrible clothes from thrift stores. I wore glasses. I made good grades so you know then I was the nerd and I didn't really have any friends. [00:23:59] So the cult identity was really all I had. Even though I was a very independent thinker in other aspects of life I don't remember a lot but I do remember that that feeling that I was pretty lonely another aspect of this is when you're doing all the right things in the congregation when you're that young pioneer that is a ministerial servant too. Everyone thinks you're awesome and likes you. But when you aren't any more you are nothing to them. It's like you have fallen off your pedestal. I remember watching my dad during the period where he was no longer an elder. And I mean he was always super depressed anyway. But I guess he was even more super depressed because all that he had was that role where people admired him in the congregation. That's all he ever really seemed to care about. Again he was a different person there. [00:24:59] And it was taken away from him. [00:25:02] I mean he wasn't happy at the meetings anymore which he used to be. But of course later he was reappointed an elder for whatever reason and things went back. He was happy at the meetings again and playing that role. But it was something that I noticed even back then that that changed that that would occur in people for me I decided that I needed a fresh start. I prayed about things and said that I would try out congregations across the river in Indiana and if I found one that I liked I'd go there. I ended up trying and liking the Charlestown congregation. It was a good distance from where I grew up controversial as far as some of that territory went. So it was different and I like that idea a total change. People were friendly to me. Of course I didn't realize at that time that there is a term used for Colts called love bombing. It's something they tend to do when a new person comes in everyone loves them they love bomb them and they overwhelm you with how happy they are that you're going to be a part of their group and that lasts for a little while and goes away. And then oftentimes they go on to somebody else. Now I always knew a lot of people but I always struggled to make real friends or maybe I just always had a distorted view of friendship. But it's always been hard for me to fit in or I don't know maybe I did fit in but just didn't feel it. Anyway I got to know a new group of young people. [00:26:43] I remember getting invited to go camping once with this group. We went out with a big group. There was a mix of young people and older ones. Some were even elders in the corrugations it was people from several local congregations that all got together. People were drinking. And although I've never been one to drink at all because I've been told that alcoholism runs in my family. [00:27:08] I don't care if other people drink if they drink and enjoy themselves more power to them. But I was watching people drink some getting maybe a little tipsy which really at least in the call. You're not supposed to do. And then all of a sudden a bunch of these young people ran out into the woods. I thought I don't know. I didn't understand why. I thought maybe they were playing a game or something. But what happened is a ranger showed up and he was checking people's IDs to make sure they were old enough to drink. Here I was camping with elders that brought booze and we're giving it to young people who were under age. And I guess everybody knew this was going to go down. And it's something that they did all the time and they just ran off because they didn't want to get caught. You see the higher I climbed on any ladder in the organization or the more I got to go out with people to see who they really were the more I realize that the man behind the curtain wasn't what he claimed to be they looked one way but weren't necessarily that way it was just an appearance. [00:28:13] I knew that some things were like you know my dad giving talks about happy family lives while being a miserable family man. But I didn't know the extent of other things that were going on. [00:28:26] There was a get together one time at a well-known farm that I went to I played basketball I had a great time. But while I was playing basketball I would noticed that young people were kind of pairing off and going into the woods together. I might see two young ladies walk off and two young guys and so on. Well it wasn't long after that an announcement started to be made at the. You know that this person was reproved or this person was disfellowshipped or whatever. So I started realizing that things were what they were made out to be. Now I was a true Jehovah's Witness through and through and I did know plenty who were. But there was always this like seedy underbelly of things going on. Most of the time I'm sure I had no clue about around this time. I actually started dating. Now let me take a minute here to explain Jadot dating to you first you must always have a chaperone and they must be a reasoning age. In other words you can't just go take a little kid with you on your date and send them off to go play while you two are alone. No. I don't care if you are 20 years old or 50 years old. [00:29:46] You must have a chaperon at all times. There are many more sisters than there are brothers so brothers have more to choose from. That sounds gross to say it that way but that's kind of how how it was depending on who you were. Especially dating is to only be undertaken with a view to marriage even engagement engagement is a vow. And what you vow you must pay. So breaking off an engagement is scandalous. [00:30:21] Personally I was super shy. And if you remember brothers and sisters in my congregation didn't really associate. I had no clue how to talk to a girl much less approach one. I would have never even had the courage to ask anyone out. [00:30:37] With all the bullying that I had endured my self-esteem was my self-esteem was pretty much in the toilet. [00:30:45] Well one day somebody at my Kingdom Hall told me that there was a girl up in Seymour that I needed to meet. I had had this happen to me previously twice and neither time did it go well but I figured what the heck. I had nothing to lose so I went up to meet her. Of course we met where many Jaida meet at Hurricane Hall because everything revolves around being a witness. [00:31:10] I stay the day with her and her family and that kind of started things off. Her parents were nice to me. [00:31:16] I worked pressure washing jobs in a winter and it would get so slow that I could sometimes stay up and see more with her and her family. [00:31:25] I would sleep on their couch and we would get to spend time together don't worry. There was always a chaperone. She had four younger sisters. Her mom and her dad all in a two bedroom house so there wasn't anything going on there. There was hardly a moment to breathe without a small child jumping on you. [00:31:46] There wasn't much to do. Her parents wouldn't let us go out much so all we really did was talk and get to know each other. It wasn't ideal but it really forced us to discuss life and how we saw things. And look I mean I was 22. She was 19 so it's not like we had a lot of depth. [00:32:05] I had at least lived on my own but she was super sheltered. [00:32:10] She was even home schooled in high school so as not to have to deal with worldly kids. So basically all she knew was that little environment in her home. Her parents although nice to me didn't seem to like me or maybe they just didn't want her to grow up and leave. Which was something they made pretty clear in different ways. At one point they had my parents. My parents went up there and thought they were just going to hang out and really they were trying to get my parents to go along with them in breaking us up. I don't know if they thought we were stupid or if their house wasn't big and we could hear them talking in the kitchen. I mean they were right there. My mom later told me anyway what they had said and discussed. My parents saw me as an adult and had no say in whatever I did hers on the other hand were extremely controlling and she had to live there. [00:33:02] So such was our dating life. We met in November of 1999 in January of 2000. We were talking one day about marriage and that's again what this was all for. [00:33:17] We decided that we wanted to get married so I went out one day and bought her a ring. Now I know this is crazy romantic. Actually it wasn't. There was no allowance for any of that in this situation. Her oldest sister got the kids out of the living room for a couple of minutes and I proposed. We were now engaged that that's all we had we wanted to go out and eat dinner to celebrate but her father had slaved over a pot of hamburger gravy and threw a fit like a petulant child that we wanted to go out and not eat what he had worked so hard for. So we ended up eating his stupid hamburger gravy. He didn't want her and would not let her leave the house that night. I do envy those that have great stories about their dating and their engagement. But that was not us. I have a story. We have a story but it's not a very great one. I'm the kind of person who loves putting together surprises for people and would have probably come up with something elaborate I love doing that stuff. But there was just no opportunity with the situation we had to deal with anyway. In [00:34:31] March of 2000 we were married in the Charlestown Kingdom Hall so there wasn't very long in between. It was a simple ceremony there were maybe 100 or so in attendance and afterward there was no reception. We went to a restaurant though and did eat with some family and a few close friends. Yes. If you noticed we were married roughly four months after meeting. It's been over 17 years now. [00:34:58] We knew what we wanted. We didn't see a reason then waiting. And I'm like a lot of Jehovah's witnesses especially those that get married young. We didn't just get married to have sex. We watched so many do that and get divorced in a few years. We were both the type of people who sat back and watched other people's misery and try to not repeat it. For us the attitude of being willing to work together at life and to enjoy it. That was more important than anything. We were so poor when we first got married. Actually thinking back I think that first year I pay taxes on like I don't know something ridiculous under the poverty level. It's like $10000 or something. I have worked a job reading meters and getting chased by dogs all day. Actually the money at that wasn't bad. But she would stay home and clean the house over and over with nothing else to do. We had like no clue how to how to do life together. I came home one day and asked her if I could quit my job. I was absolutely traumatized from being chased by a pit bulls and rottweilers all day and just could not take it anymore. She was fine with it but I had never quit a job without having another one lined up before so I wasn't really fine with it but I just couldn't take it anymore. The day that I quit there was one woman meter reader that works with us and she had gotten mauled in the chest and required reconstructive surgery. That was it for me. [00:36:39] Almost everyone there had been bitten at least one time but me. [00:36:43] I knew it was inevitable and I just could not mentally handle it anymore. My wife's side of things. [00:36:51] She had been home schooled for high school and her. [00:36:59] Her mom actually used her being home. [00:37:05] My wife ended up watching her youngest sister a lot. In fact she was at one time referred to as little mommy by her sisters and her mom really kind of discouraged her from doing her school work. Would rather her sit and listen to her stories or go hang out with her at Wal-Mart or something like that so. [00:37:30] So on my wife's side of things she didn't even have a full high school education. My goal was to help my wife get at least her GED so I told her you know we would need to at least get this for you because you know if you were ever if there was something happened to me and you needed to get a job you've got to at least have a high school equivalency. So I helped my wife get her GED. I we sat down and really I mean she knew everything she needed to know just needed a refresher on a few things. Except for the except for in math. So I helped her there I helped her with her math and so she was able to actually go and she took her GED. She passed it got a great grade on it and was super proud of that. She even went to her there called her parents and told them that she got her GED. They didn't really seem to care. But she was proud of that. So that was a good thing. [00:38:39] So that it would give her more opportunities in the world. And you know everybody should should be able to accomplish that and feel good about it. [00:38:49] There was a sister in an older congregation that needed some cleaners to clean banks and car dealerships that night. So we signed on for her and subcontracted and did that for a while. [00:39:01] Eventually she lost her contracts. So we started our own cleaning business. [00:39:05] We liked working together. We hated working nights. That was terrible. So we talked about it and decided that you know maybe we could clean apartments because apartments could be cleaned during the day and if you could get an apartment complex it's not like you're not like getting a house where you clean one house when you get an apartment complex you're cleaning all of their turnovers each month so you might get you know many depending on the size of the apartment complex. So we had about $500 in the bank. We prayed about it of course because what you do about everything. We bought a few supplies bought some business cards. I had previously there was a point in my life about two or three years where I was a telemarketer and then I managed a marketing large marketing department for a company. And so I just sat down got the phone and started cold calling apartment complexes. [00:40:04] I called five numbers got three appointments with the property managers and we landed two deals out of that. We've been cleaning professionally now for about 17 years together. Now we clean people's individual private homes. Now that was good but it wasn't all good. [00:40:21] You see I had no clue how to handle money. Growing up poor you actually got a dollar you spent it because you never knew when you get another. I had a scarcity mindset for sure. Through and through my wife on the other hand had an abundance mindset. She had a very sheltered life. Never even had a television. But her dad actually made decent money. So she just knew that things got taken care of and she had no clue what the real world was like. She never had to handle money. She knew she needed something. It's not like she asked for a lot. Did you have a TV didn't know what like and didn't go to school so she didn't know what was in the real world. But if she needed something you know her parents had the money to get it for. So she kind of had a lot of growing up to do. I did too. I didn't know how to handle money and she did not care about money whatsoever. [00:41:16] So I handled the finances and honestly I did a terrible job. I did our own taxes for the business and I messed up badly the first couple of years. I did not realize that we had to file self-employment tax which is a huge percentage. The majority of tax that you pay when you own your own self-employed business. The IRS did eventually catch it several years later and sent me a massive bill business was good though. At one point I had the largest property management firm locked down in little and my dad and one of my brothers worked for us. Then one day we showed up to find out that they had sold off all of their local properties to different companies and we lost about 60 percent of our business in one day. I had to let my brother go. I had to let my dad go and my wife and I had to scramble to put the business back together again. Actually I started a mobile auto detailing business out of thin air with no knowledge and no experience whatsoever. And it got us through the summer while we transition to cleaning residential homes and built the clientele. [00:42:23] I also took some contract work performing inspections of properties for commercial mortgage doors while my wife was out cleaning houses. So we did what we needed to do. We cobbled enough things together to make the transition and hustle. [00:42:40] So while all that's going on something else is about to happen. That was huge. I mean this is a monumental event in my life and I know one that was obviously such from my brother my I was the oldest in my family but my oldest younger brother had moved out of my parents house. And long story short he was this Fellowship's when he moved. I didn't know where he lived. And this is before he was his fellowship but I didn't know where he had lived but I found out where he moved to. I knew something was up but I didn't know what. So I found out the street that he lived on. So what I do I went knocking on doors. That's what I was good at right. And so I found him. I was concerned about him because we had been close. I mean those years where I felt lonely living on my own in that duplex. It was he and I we would often go out fishing and we'd have fun together. And now he just kind of like disappeared. So I found him we hung out a few times but I could tell something wasn't right. [00:43:47] I was trying to encourage him but I could just tell that he just wanted to be left alone. As far as the whole Jaida thing is he was he was kind of choosing another path. [00:43:59] Well one night at a meeting at the Kingdom Hall in the auditorium a particularly abrasive elder that I don't like a lot came up to me and said that he knew that I knew where my brother lived and that he wanted the address. [00:44:14] I asked why. And then he said well you know the elders were concerned and they wanted to help them. I could tell that was not at all. I was upset and told them Well you know if you're wanted to help him that time to have done so was to show that you care like a long time ago. [00:44:34] Not now. Like now it's too late. He clearly wants to do something else and now you care. To me it seemed like this wasn't so much caring about a person as it was wanting to punish a person. Well he got mad and demanded the address. So I gave him the illustration that they like to use a lot from the platform from the Bible about a shepherd that leaves his 99 sheep to go find that one lost sheep and told him to go find his sheep like I did if he cares so much and wants to help. I mean I found them. So you go find them. Well things got pretty nasty and heated and we were practically shouting at each other in the auditorium. And another elder kind of jumped in to intervene. Well they eventually found him. They waited outside his job if I remember correctly and served him with a letter to come to a judicial meeting a certain time and day. The kicker is if you don't show up to one of these meetings where you're requested you are disfellowshipped by default. [00:45:42] My brother didn't want to have to deal with any of them. He just wanted to be left alone and go his own way. He was disfellowshipped instead. I can't imagine how horrible that was for him. [00:45:56] So at that time I was forced into a position to have to shun the person that was probably my best friend even though at that point in particular we hadn't really we kind of gotten away from each other a little bit. [00:46:10] We kind of gone our separate ways. I had moved away. On the other side of the river but it was really hard on me. I left notes on his car a few times I found out where he worked and I go leave a note on his car. But it was to no avail. In one I told him that since I had moved away from the arrogation that we grew up in I knew something was wrong with that one that we grew up in. Of course later in my life I find out it wasn't just that one. But anyway at that time I thought I knew the secret. You know there was just something messed up in his congregation I was trying to save him. I was grasping at straws to encourage him to come back. [00:46:49] Eventually I heard though that he moved to New York and that was that he was gone. I was pretty devastated. My wife was pretty broken up over it. [00:46:58] I was super depressed as I said before I was bad with money and I started feeling rich now that I was making you know anything about minimum wage. It didn't take much to make me feel wealthy when I came from nothing. Basically the way it worked out. I just wasn't saving for taxes. I just really had not figured that aspect out at all. And we already owed more money than I'd ever seen in my hand at the time. So I just kind of buried my head in the sand. I was overwhelmed. I didn't see any way out. So I self-medicated my depression and everything else by buying things and eating. When we got married I was six feet tall and 125 pounds soaking wet. I had tried everything to gain weight. [00:47:46] I lifted weights I took weight gain a plenty and nothing works. Well the magic to gaining weight for me was depression and eating out constantly while working lots and at my heaviest I got to about 250. Well OK I got to 250 on the scale and then I stopped looking. So it wasn't just a tax that was ballooning so was my waistline. Oh and our marriage was terrible for a few years too. You see I was a narcissist trained by the best. My parents and the Colts I had been taught my whole life that other people were supposed to be just like me and my wife was nothing like me. [00:48:28] She had grown up in a home where her dad would come home from work frustrated and look for excuses to hit her. He would get mad. Some kid had to do something wrong so that he could go take them back and spank them hit and then afterward he would feel bad and want to play. Now I die. I never hit her. Not that person but I'm sure that the person that I was triggered her we were two very unhappy people for at least a few years. It's hard to say now but honestly there were talks about going our separate ways. At one point we have a basement so we basically even lives in the house on separate levels. We just really were not getting along very well and honestly I mean I'll take that upon myself. [00:49:18] It took both of us but I was certainly the aggressor in the situation I was certainly the one I was the narcissist. [00:49:26] I was the one trying to make things a certain way and I just wasn't clicking in retrospect the reality was that when we got married we both were looking for something. [00:49:43] And I was looking for a person that I could help. I've always liked helping other people in various ways unfortunately. Help can quickly become I'm the fixer and I am that that's who I am. I'm the fixer. Which is not always a good thing. And sometimes it goes too far. And my wife too when she was actually asked what she liked about me and one of the things that she liked was that I was very decisive. [00:50:17] My wife didn't like to make decisions. [00:50:21] So you can see right there that on some level we were kind of both getting what we asked for. She on one hand wanted someone to basically direct her life and I wanted someone whose life I could help guide. My goal was never to direct you know in every single way. [00:50:44] The fact that I used to you know we had many discussions about this I wasn't I guess I wasn't a true true blue eyed narcissist. I just had some narcissistic tendencies because I realized that this was healthy. And it ended up the situation was that I needed to learn to step back and she needed to learn. You know if I did step back she needed to learn to step up. And so at that time we were too and matched and it really just wasn't a healthy situation. In fact at one point out of frustration I punched our refrigerator. It won sure I then add the freezer but I got a boxer's fracture out of it. I never broken anything in my life but I knew immediately that something was wrong. I had to go get that taken care of at a local immediate care center. [00:51:38] I'm telling you these things because this is this is the reality. This is this is how things went. You know so let's just discuss it openly. I'm not proud of that. I'm not proud of that person that I was. [00:51:53] But this is who I was this is who I became through not only my family of origin but the Colts. And I think that it was a very strong influence on all of this and my wife you know wasn't exactly proud of the ER isn't exactly proud in retrospect of the person you know she was at that time as well. She [00:52:18] had her own issues that she brought from her own family of origin. I've already mentioned just a small example of what went on in their home. And so she she brought her own brand of dysfunction which of course is what we all do to any kind of a relationship. So but I'm just trying to speak more to my own responsibility here than anything. [00:52:45] I know this is my story so I'm trying to speak more to that side. So at the time I was doing inspections which was lucky because I could do those with a cast on my hand if I was cleaning it would would've been a lot tougher. [00:53:00] But if you know me I would have done it one way or the other. At some point we decided to take up our carpet in the house because we realized that we had hardwood under it. We checked the different corners it looked beautiful. Well when we took up our carpet we realized that the floors were eaten up in areas by termites and in other areas and have been urinated on so frequently by a dog or cat that someone owned before us that the wood was ruined. [00:53:29] And my desperation to fix our financial state I decided to start selling things that boose and local pedlar's malls. We set up the booths and sold the peddler's mall then sold the things for us and we made a chunk of money well eventually we stopped because it just wasn't enough anymore. And now our house became flooded with unsold goods and large display cases like you may see at a jewelry store like I'm talking like large display cases the big glass ones where you might go to a department store and they have watches and jewelry in them. You had some of those. So let me paint the picture for you. Our house was now basically hoarded was stuff the floors were a disaster but you couldn't see them anymore from all the stuff that was piled on top of them. We took the living together in the basement to run away from it all tax debt was mounting. We were probably over 30000 at that point. Money that we didn't have and had no way to obtain. We weren't getting along in our marriage. Neither of us really had any friends to do anything with business had been a mess. We were starting to get back together. The one bright point we were still busy doing all the data things. Life was pretty ugly and not working out at all. [00:54:51] In fact during this time I actually went to the elders in the current geisha that we attended. I asked for a meeting with them because I knew that our life was a disaster. And again I thought that everybody else had theirs together. So I went to the elders and I asked them sincerely at the time I had a few little things in the congregation that I was doing I was running the sound department and things. And I told them I said I just don't think I can run the sound department anymore. [00:55:29] I don't think that I measure up to what it is that one of Jehovah's Witnesses should be in order to have a privilege like this and the creation of my life is a mess. [00:55:41] I asked these elders I said look you know what is it like. I wish that that I could go live other people's lives or you know go be a fly on the wall of these other people's lives so that I could see what they were doing differently because my life was a disaster and I couldn't keep up with all of the quote spiritual things that I was supposed to do. [00:56:05] I was having a hard time making all of the meetings much less handling all the responsibilities at the Kingdom Hall. [00:56:11] I I couldn't do the personal study that I was supposed to do where was I going to find time for that or emotional energy so I asked these brothers you know what is it like what is the key and I'll never forget what they said because it was a pretty big moment for me. [00:56:36] It really set me down a spiraling path that was even uglier than I was already on. [00:56:44] And I'll explain here in a minute how dark it got. But one of the elders looked at me he said well basically it just comes down to you know what we do shows what we care about. [00:57:02] So clearly he was basically telling me you don't care enough about this. He was telling me that the fault was mine. [00:57:10] He made me feel even worse than I already felt you know here you had a chance to help me in some way and he did what Jehovah's Witnesses always do which is to moralize everything. Basically I was just a bad person. I didn't care enough. You know clearly I didn't know I was feeling terrible and actually coming to them and asking for help which should have shown that obviously I clearly cared. I was trying everything I could but to them I just didn't care enough. To make matters worse I had always had suicidal ideations since I was a kid. [00:57:51] I will say that they started at some point after we became Jehovah's Witnesses which is something I've heard from others but I couldn't tell you for sure. Basically if I was walking down a street or walking down the sidewalk next to a street and this street was super busy I would like visualize myself walking out in front of a car just wondering what that would be like. And it's almost like there was something pushing me to do so. I don't know what it was. I hate my home life. I was bullied at school constantly and really all I had in the world was this cold where I fit in as a kid because I was a good kid and I did what I was told well by 2008. [00:58:29] Those little voices in my head were screaming at me as hard as I was on my wife as a narcissist. I was even harder on myself. I was a raging perfectionist. There were standards to be met and by God you had better meet. And I had better meet them too. And those standards that I set from ourselves were impossibly high. I hated myself so much. I can't really express how deep it was. I would literally yell at myself to get it together. I would call myself names. I would cuss at myself. I would punish myself for not getting things done right. After all everyone else around me it seemed like at the Keenum all had it all together right. [00:59:20] I mean that image of all these perfect lives. Contrast that mind that was just socking it just fueled me to keep reaching for perfection. It seemed like the harder I pushed the worse things got. [00:59:34] It was a good thing that my wife and I worked together because it ultimately kept me from doing what I wanted to do and might have done if left alone. Now I never had a weapon in the house. I've never had a gun I've never shot a gun and it's probably a good thing because if I did I can almost guarantee you I would have put a bullet in my head. I can't tell you how many times when I was driving. [01:00:01] I once had to run headfirst into a concrete wall or pillar or just off a bridge. I mean like these were little rage filled moments internally of complete self-loathing where I just wanted to punish myself for being a worthless piece of crap and for not being able to control my life while everyone else seemed to have theirs together. I saw no way out other than that it was super super dark. [01:00:30] I hated myself no one else seemed to like me. I didn't get me neither did anyone else. The one person in life that I thought I fit in with my wife seemed to not get me. We were on totally opposite sides of the world. What was the point. I mean I was tormented every day. It seemed like if I ended it. It's not like I wanted to die but if I ended it somehow violently and in an act of hatred to myself I'm sure it just seemed like a fitting way to go out. It would just make it stop and ultimately that's what I wanted. Anything to make it stop well. I told you something happened that changed things for me. One little moments that lit the kindling of a fire that would burn bright for the next seven years. [01:01:27] And so I burned my whole life down as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. [01:01:33] I was on the computer as I often was escaping into online forums where I could fit in if just a moment. Sometimes it was just talking to other fans of the local college sports teams. Sometimes it was business subjects. I bounced all over the place. Well one day I was on a forum about small business as per usual. I was talking in circles about all my ideas and my frustrations because I couldn't execute on all of them some random guy on the forum posted on the forum that he'd like to send me a private message and asked if he could do so I said sure. That he did the contents of that private message would send me on a different course one that I never expected. Now here's where I thought about leaving you hanging until next week but I can't do that. I hate to be continued episodes of anything. I won't be able to detail this whole next chapter of my life in this episode it would take too long and we will get through it obviously but I can tell you what this guy said to me and now I also couldn't this is dark as it was it it turns out that this guy was a retired ADHD specialist and he saw something in me that led him to believe that I had ADHD. [01:02:52] I'll admit that I personally thought that ADHD was a made up disease and excuse for bad parents to medicate their children so that they didn't have to control them themselves. But what did I have to lose by listening to this guy. I mean what was the alternative. Going out in a blaze of self-hatred. So he recommended that I read a book called Driven to Distraction from Dr. Edward Hallowell. [01:03:17] That's known as kind of like the ADHD Bible it's of many Well I did it read I still don't read books like A lot of people with ADHD. I don't have the focus to read my mind wanders. Well audio books though right up my alley. So listening to them I can listen to an audio book while doing something else especially something physical that helps me to focus. [01:03:43] So I bought the book in audio format one Saturday morning my wife and I were out detailing the car for a client and my wife and I cued up the book on our devices at the same time and we listened separately on our headphones while detailing the car her on the inside of it. She always detailed the inside. And I would detail the outside. [01:04:04] I will never forget listening to this book for the first time in my life somebody understood me and the way my brain works when it was over when the book was over. [01:04:16] I cried because I didn't want it to end. I mean this this was magical for me. It was finally feeling understood and finally being able to understand myself on some level. Since we started listening at the same time there were so many times where my wife would get out of the car and just look at me with her eyes wide and shake her head in amazement and I mean I was doing the same thing to her. It explains so much of my adult life. And if I think back I think were recluse when I was younger too. I think it might explain some things then unlike a lot of people with ADHD I excelled academically. But like anything it's on a spectrum and where I would have flunked out of high school if I had to read books if I'd been given books and I had to like just read those and like go do the assignments by myself. [01:05:12] I would have failed but I was very good at listening in class. Remember I learned very good with something as auditory and so I just listened in class. I paid attention and my brain worked super fast. So I mean it just all came in and stuck. I believe what I have is called ADHD overfocused. So first let's understand and establish that ADHD isn't necessarily an attention deficit. It can be somewhere more inattentive but for some of us it is that we actually pay attention to literally everything around us and we get distracted easily. [01:05:58] But it's not for lack of attention it's actually for a lack of focus. I notice everything when driving I know where every car around me is I've never been in a wreck and I have narrowly avoided some really close calls where people almost hit me because I caught something out of the corner of my eye or I knew where they were and I was able to move really fast. It's like this weird super. Unfortunately a side of being overly focused could be near obsession almost OCD like tendencies which perfectionism is one combine that with a cult that is pushing perfectionistic messages constantly and it is a perfect storm for self-hatred. Heck the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses. As I said earlier leaves most people with the prevailing theme of feeling like they're never good enough. [01:06:54] So I had kind of a double whammy here. When I look back at that past years while I was listening to the book while I look back at that adult life that I had honestly it's like this book woke me up from some sort of deep sleep some sort of autopilot. I don't know what I was doing over those years. I mean I was doing the best that I could. I was hustling. I was trying really hard. I was pushin the heck out of things. And I know that it was hard and painful and horrible. But I think that on some level maybe it was just the depression but I was just checked out. I mean I was there. I was grasping at straws but it's almost like it was at me like looking back I kind of had no clue what I had really been doing even. But now I had a new direction. I was I was woke. As they say on some new level and I didn't know it but that was about to take me down an amazing road that unfortunately though this road would take me through hell. But it was a productive hell. And then there would be some heartbreak. [01:08:13] But on the other side of that was a freedom that I'm experiencing now that is unlike anything that I ever had in my entire life. So I'm going to go ahead and stop here. But next week I'm going to go through those next seven years. And what I learned these things that I learned are just things that I needed to hear. They're things that so many people need to hear. I [01:08:36] hope that the next episode is inspiring to others. I hope that it will give other people something to look into to help them with their own problems in life whatever they may be. I learn so many beautiful things and my life was completely changed. We're going to see in this next episode. I don't know. We'll see if it it's one or two episodes we'll see how long it ends up being and how it breaks down. I also have some research I may have to do and some of the titles of books I'm going to give some specifics because I want to help other people give them something that might help them in their life. That being you know you the listener. So we'll see if I can get that one out on time. I'm going to try. But it's going to be worth it whenever it comes out so hopefully it'll come out next weekend. Oftentimes on Sunday. But if it doesn't it will come out soon I promise. And it will be worth it. [01:09:39] So I really do appreciate you listening. If you like this or think that it might help somebody else please subscribe so that you can get each episode as they come out and tell others about this. I'm putting this out into the world to be of help and it's not going to help anybody obviously people don't spread the word. I don't have a big podcast network behind me. I don't have the cache of a Leah Remini. That allowed her to do a series on Scientology. I'm just a guy that lived a certain life that wants to expose what literally millions of other people around the world have gone through. There are over eight million Jehovah's Witnesses and scores of ex Jehovah's Witnesses out there. There are millions more that have family or friends that are Jehovah's Witnesses that they might be concerned about take this to them so that they can see what it's like. And if nothing else maybe it just helps somebody to feel less alone. Visit my site at. W w w this J.W. life dot com if you want to discuss this further. There will be a place to comment below each episode that I put out so there can be a discussion. Ask questions give suggestions or if you want just say hi I might answer them on another podcast or maybe have fun you know. Of course I'll engage in the discussion there but maybe there's something that can help me to even change this has to make it better. Remember that others are fighting things that you might not realize and give them the benefit of the doubt. [01:11:03] Love others do no harm and go be happy. [/expand]