Luisa and Keiran on free will, and the consequences of never feeling enduring guilt or shame

80,000 Hours Podcast

In this episode from our second show, 80k After Hours, Luisa Rodriguez and Keiran Harris chat about the consequences of letting go of enduring guilt, shame, anger, and pride.

Links to learn more, highlights, and full transcript.

They cover:

• Keiran’s views on free will, and how he came to hold them
• What it’s like not experiencing sustained guilt, shame, and anger
• Whether Luisa would become a worse person if she felt less guilt and shame — specifically whether she’d work fewer hours, or donate less money, or become a worse friend
• Whether giving up guilt and shame also means giving up pride
• The implications for love
• The neurological condition ‘Jerk Syndrome’
• And some practical advice on feeling less guilt, shame, and anger

Who this episode is for:

• People sympathetic to the idea that free will is an illusion
• People who experience tons of guilt, shame, or anger
• People worried about what would happen if they stopped feeling tonnes of guilt, shame, or anger

Who this episode isn’t for:

• People strongly in favour of retributive justice
• Philosophers who can’t stand random non-philosophers talking about philosophy
• Non-philosophers who can’t stand random non-philosophers talking about philosophy

Chapters:

• Cold open (00:00:00)
• Luisa's intro (00:01:16)
• The chat begins (00:03:15)
• Keiran's origin story (00:06:30)
• Charles Whitman (00:11:00)
• Luisa's origin story (00:16:41)
• It's unlucky to be a bad person (00:19:57)
• Doubts about whether free will is an illusion (00:23:09)
• Acting this way just for other people (00:34:57)
• Feeling shame over not working enough (00:37:26)
• First person / third person distinction (00:39:42)
• Would Luisa become a worse person if she felt less guilt? (00:44:09)
• Feeling bad about not being a different person (00:48:18)
• Would Luisa donate less money? (00:55:14)
• Would Luisa become a worse friend? (01:01:07)
• Pride (01:08:02)
• Love (01:15:35)
• Bears and hurricanes (01:19:53)
• Jerk Syndrome (01:24:24)
• Keiran's outro (01:34:47)

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Producer: Keiran Harris
Audio mastering: Milo McGuire
Transcriptions: Katy Moore